Jake White Quits Brumbies

[Braveheart81]

Slim 293

I would rather have the Logan Under 10 coach as long as he is Australian. Surely we have enough talent in this country to provide pathways for coaches as well.

There are heaps of talented coaches all over the world but IMO the national coach should be a national.

Shit, can you even imagine the Kiwis appointing a non-kiwi - there would be a fucking riot and even more would flee to Australia - ha ha

The choice of national coach isn't a selection issue though. It's a job. It's not a representative position like being a player where going into each series a new squad is selected.

There are heaps of talented coaches all over the world and plenty of them are Australian. Our coaches enjoy the opportunity to coach wherever they wish including the chance to coach other national teams.

I think the comparison to New Zealand is a bit silly. Why would the best rugby nation in the world with the best coaches hire someone from another country?

The reason why plenty of countries (and teams) around the world hire New Zealand coaches is because there are a lot of bloody good ones.

We should always hire the best person for the job regardless of their nationality.

For the record, I think hiring McKenzie was the correct move for the ARU.

 

[daz]

With all the fucking around, wailing and gnashing of teeth and general hyperbole that comes from something like this happening, Tim Horan made a very good point on twitter last night - that all coaches and players should be on annual contracts only.

Given the way professional sports is managed these days, I see a lot of merit in that idea.

 

[I like to watch]

Slim 293

I would rather have the Logan Under 10 coach as long as he is Australian. Surely we have enough talent in this country to provide pathways for coaches as well.

There are heaps of talented coaches all over the world but IMO the national coach should be a national.

Shit, can you even imagine the Kiwis appointing a non-kiwi - there would be a fucking riot and even more would flee to Australia - ha ha

So Rathbone/Vickerman etc should never have been Wallabies?
Henry Speight should fuck off home?
I'm sure the Logan U 10's coach enjoys your support though.

 

[Braveheart81]

With all the fucking around, wailing and gnashing of teeth and general hyperbole that comes from something like this happening, Tim Horan made a very good point on twitter last night - that all coaches and players should be on annual contracts only.

Given the way professional sports is managed these days, I see a lot of merit in that idea.

Whilst there is one obvious upside of that, surely there are many downsides.

It makes it much harder to plan for the future and probably more importantly, means that teams have to go through the drawn out and painful (and presumably expensive) contracting process on a more frequent basis.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Much better than 1yr contracts only would be having a soccer style transfer system.

 

[daz]

Whilst there is one obvious upside of that, surely there are many downsides.

It makes it much harder to plan for the future and probably more importantly, means that teams have to go through the drawn out and painful (and presumably expensive) contracting process on a more frequent basis.

Sure, but Jake walked out half-way through a 4 year deal, so how is that helpful in future planning in any way?

I initially recoiled when I read Horan's comment, but after thinking about it, it is not the worst idea in the world.

 

[Ghibli]

If he is leaving for the reason reported (that he missed out on the Wallaby job), I think it validates the ARU's decision not to pick him as coach.

There was talk months ago that White was seeking Australian citizenship and still hoped to coach the wallabies after Mckenzie. If that was the case I would have loved for him to be coach because he would have demonstrated through his actions that he was here for the right reasons.

I think his actions since show he isn't worthy of the honour.

But I'd like to hear Whites side of the story as well.

Could not disagree more with all the points raised here.
There was talk about White getting a citizenship to coach the Wobs - by whom? hearsay. Last thing you can say about Jake is that he is not honest.

He's demonstrated that he was not here for the right reasons? Wake up, this is professional rugby, we've put up with Dingo for 5 years only because the ARU thought we could win everything with him. If White was coaching the Tahs he would be coaching the Wobs today.

The fact that he's leaving Australia validates the ARU decision to pick Ewan? How? Is hanging around for years accepting the ARU games and warped politics the key requirement to coach the Wallabies, or is coaching competence more important? Cheika had not even started coaching the Tahs and the media was already calling for him to coach the Wobs.

I knew White would leave the moment the ARU overlookes him for the job, after having sought his interest in the job months before. I understand his desire to return to RSA to stay closer to his sons - I would probably do the same! and I thank him for the great work he did for us. And wish him the best of luck.

All talk about the varius coaches to replace him are a pie in the sky. It will be Larkham or Fisher. This is the Brumbies. And the Brumbies are a lot stronger than someone would like to believe.

 

[USARugger]

Whilst there is one obvious upside of that, surely there are many downsides.

It makes it much harder to plan for the future and probably more importantly, means that teams have to go through the drawn out and painful (and presumably expensive) contracting process on a more frequent basis.

It's actually an outright shocker of a suggestion from Horan.

One year contracts would make franchises almost impossible to run and the quality of the league play would suffer immensely.

It would create immense instability and destroy any level of cohesiveness within he club.

America has had professional sport for a while longer and not a single code of sport has strictly one year contracts - for a reason.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sure, but Jake walked out half-way through a 4 year deal, so how is that helpful in future planning in any way?

I initially recoiled when I read Horan's comment, but after thinking about it, it is not the worst idea in the world.

Clearly it's not helpful that he walked out two years into a four year deal.

How would it have been better though if they'd had to re-sign have at the end of 2012 and then again now? With training starting in two weeks you'd think that there would be a high chance that he'd already have been signed up for 2014 prior to quitting yesterday.

If one year contracts existed and he hadn't already been signed for 2014 then surely we'd be faced with exactly the same situation right now where the Brumbies don't have a coach except we would have spent the last month speculating on what was happening with the Brumbies coaching position.

 

[daz]

It's actually an outright shocker of a suggestion from Horan.

One year contracts would make franchises almost impossible to run and the quality of the league play would suffer immensely.

It would create immense instability and destroy any level of cohesiveness within he club.

America has had professional sport for a while longer and not a single code of sport has strictly one year contracts - for a reason.

Then the only way to negate that is to enforce the lawful terms of the contract - you sign for 4 years and you stay for 4 years.

That also works the other way as well - if a club finds out that 2 years into a deal they have signed the wrong bloke, then tough titties for them.

Either way, under the current process there is no point people getting upset for a coach or player seeking an early release, because the system allows it.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

With some trepidation I offer you the Growdenator's take:

ARU comments inflamed Jake White's stance
http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/199699.html

 

[I like to watch]

Then the only way to negate that is to enforce the lawful terms of the contract - you sign for 4 years and you stay for 4 years.

That also works the other way as well - if a club finds out that 2 years into a deal they have signed the wrong bloke, then tough titties for them.

Either way, under the current process there is no point people getting upset for a coach or player seeking an early release, because the system allows it.

The thing is,would the Brumbies want him therefor the next 2 years if he was not emotionally engaged?
There is a huge difference in fulfilling contractual obligations,and putting your heart and soul into the job.Results generally reflect this engagement.

 

[daz]

Clearly it's not helpful that he walked out two years into a four year deal.

How would it have been better though if they'd had to re-sign have at the end of 2012 and then again now? With training starting in two weeks you'd think that there would be a high chance that he'd already have been signed up for 2014 prior to quitting yesterday.

If one year contracts existed and he hadn't already been signed for 2014 then surely we'd be faced with exactly the same situation right now where the Brumbies don't have a coach except we would have spent the last month speculating on what was happening with the Brumbies coaching position.

Agree, but think of it another way; at a point in the season the club sits with the player/coach and asks if they are keen for another year. Answer yes and they go round again. Answer no and at least the club has time to sort itself out in a timely manner.

I say this simply because for most S15 clubs, pre-season is a couple of weeks away and the Brumbies are now in the situation where (out of the blue and with no warning at all) they have no head coach at a point where most "targetable" coaches are already signed up elsewhere.

 

[Braveheart81]

Then the only way to negate that is to enforce the lawful terms of the contract - you sign for 4 years and you stay for 4 years.

That also works the other way as well - if a club finds out that 2 years into a deal they have signed the wrong bloke, then tough titties for them.

Either way, under the current process there is no point people getting upset for a coach or player seeking an early release, because the system allows it.

No matter how short contracts are there is always the chance that someone will walk out during a contract. I just don't see how limiting the times that can happen outweighs the added uncertainty and hassle of having to re-sign both players and coaching staff every single season.

As Inside Shoulder said, there is no way to make someone stay if they want to leave. A court will never enforce specific performance of a contract for personal service.

I just don't see how this situation would be at all improved if Jake White only had a one year contract and during that new contracting process announced last night that he wasn't going to re-sign for 2014. Chances are that if they sat him down in the week or two after the Super Rugby final he would have said he was definitely keen to continue in 2014.

 

[daz]

The thing is,would the Brumbies want him therefor the next 2 years if he was not emotionally engaged?
There is a huge difference in fulfilling contractual obligations,and putting your heart and soul into the job.Results generally reflect this engagement.

Yes, which is why I am saying annual contracts make a little bit of sense.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I think it's just better to have an escape clause somewhere. It's never a good idea to force someone to stay who doesn't want to be there, or to have to keep someone around when everyone else wants them gone.

 

[Richo]

Surely there should be other aspects to the role outside of specifically planning for and coaching the Wallabies.

If the actual coaching of the Wallabies isn't a 12 months a year job then as the top coach in the country, there could definitely be other work carried out mentoring other coaches and sharing his broader experience with the ARU etc.

Yup, exactly. I'd be surprised if there are 4 weeks a year without some sort of pressure to be working, often in a face-to-face context.

 

[biggsy]

Would Larkham be ready to be a super rugby coach. Or will fisher get the gig due to his history with the brumbies. And Larkham directly underneath him.

Was it white,fisher then Larkham I'm not to sure.

 

[USARugger]

daz

The thing is these walkouts are not nearly that prevalent put up against the actual number of players and coaches currently on contracts.

It's also important that if someone truly no longer wants to be with a club to leave so that the club may move forward and not stagnate through apathy.

There is no emergency, the current system is not suddenly broken because Jake wants to go home. There are working models of this type of contraction and franchise structure in many codes of sport all over the world.

 

[Brisbok]

Mowen's take on the news:

"When I met with him this morning I was still very much in that frame of mind about talking him into coming back. He spoke about how he really enjoyed his time with his kids, and it made him re-evaluate what was really important at this stage," Mowen said

"Through my conversations with him … I know that his importance has shifted. It has shifted to re-connecting with his two boys, Wes (23) and Clint (17)."

"He always does things with a lot of judgement and thought. He never rushes into anything. The way he spoke about that (family) being the most important thing to him, I agreed with him so I didn't bother trying to change his mind.

"He said that, balanced off with the fact the Brumbies program he leaves is in a really good space; he's fast-tracked what he'd like to achieve over four years in almost two. The next stage of that was for the program to move on without him, which was always the succession plan. It just happened in a shorter period of time.

White, who wasn't taking phone calls, took the other Brumbies in the Wallabies squad out to dinner in Cape Town to explain his decision in person.

"That's a big part of Jake, his relationship with the players. He is a relationships coach, that's why he gets so much out of guys," Mowen said, speaking ahead of the dinner.

"I can't speak for everyone but I'd say they'll be in a very understanding mood. I was this morning. You go in with your own point of view but once you hear his, it is just what everyone would do in a similar situation."

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...th-africa-return/story-e6frf4qu-1226727311151