It's the coach

[barrenjoey]

Why is a bledisloe test match all that different to a super xv grand final, nearly all the same players, pretty much same pressure, Aus v NZ , must be the coach. If Deans got them to play like a unit instead of a pack individual rock stars building their own "brand" we might have a chance, ban them from reading the news papers for a start ! Can not believe a kiwi doesn't want NZ to win the WC. on home soil, if Deans, in his heart of hearts wants a wallaby win it's unnatural. This bloke has done nothing, he is flat out stringing two wins together? get rid of him now and put in McKenzie or Dwyer,,,, or even Jones before it's to late. QC (Quade Cooper) would look good in a Bronco's jersey ,it's where he belongs!

 

[Viking]

Its not all the coach. NZ is full of solid consistant players. nearly ALL our players are prone to flakiness. Sure on their day they are world class, but they also have off days when they are below average. NZ players are always either solid or great. Ours are Superb or complete ass. Theres Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper, Alexander, IMO all have flakey games more then often. Some are getting more consistent especially at Super level but at Test level they have not quite eliminated there flakiness. Elsom, Palu, Sharpe I would say also have fairly below average games often enough. If all our players played at there best, we'd win the RWC but with so many flakes in one team what is the chances of that happening? We need some more solid players, I would say Ben Robinson, Pocock, TPN, Moore, Horwill, Genia, Digby are consistantly good. NZ's whole starting line-up plus back-ups are solid.

 

[Riptide]

Its not all the coach. NZ is full of solid consistant players. nearly ALL our players are prone to flakiness. Sure on their day they are world class, but they also have off days when they are below average. NZ players are always either solid or great. Ours are Superb or complete ass. Theres Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Cooper, Alexander, IMO all have flakey games more then often. Some are getting more consistent especially at Super level but at Test level they have not quite eliminated there flakiness. Elsom, Palu, Sharpe I would say also have fairly below average games often enough. If all our players played at there best, we'd win the RWC but with so many flakes in one team what is the chances of that happening? We need some more solid players, I would say Ben Robinson, Pocock, TPN, Moore, Horwill, Genia, Digby are consistantly good. NZ's whole starting line-up plus back-ups are solid.

I'm sorry but I think your comments are mere hyperbole. Aus have the 2nd ranked team in the world for a reason and have superb talent across the park. Unfortunately, while exceptionally talented, the Wallabies are very young, and relatively inexperienced in some positions and this leads to inconsistencies.

 

[bfc]

Well this is the question isn't it?

It becomes obvious when you watch the All Backs that they are experienced, test hardened, and know what it takes to win at the highest level. They execute the fundamentals better than anyone else and they are disciplined when it comes to executing a game plan. And that is what it takes to be the best test squad in the world.

It's obvious that they are well coached, but then players with that much test experience should be relatively easy to coach. And in New Zealand they have the luxury to drop guys if they don't buy into the program, or rather what they do now in that a player doesn't get into the squad if they don't buy into the program. They have the depth to be able to do that. And right now no other team in the world is challenging them enough for them to question whether their established players are too old or ordinary.

For the Wallabies to challenge the All Blacks they need to execute the fundamentals at the highest level consistently and execute a game plan with discipline every time out. After that their game breakers should be able to make the difference. But until we match their execution and discipline, we won't beat them consistently. And I think that's what we know. We also saw the Reds becomes a team that was very good at the fundamentals of the game and discipline in executing a game plan, particularly the latter.

What we don't know is why the Wallabies aren't where they need to be in order to consistently challenge and beat the All Blacks. The Wallabies are young and less experienced. That culture of excellence in the national team that the All Blacks currently have hasn't been there in at least 4 or 5 years for the Wallabies. Are we seeing a current coaching staff who aren't able to build that culture? Or are they building it and we just need to be patient?

I don't know. I have my doubts based on what I see, but I'd like to be proven wrong. I do think that Deans has a master plan building toward the World Cup, and one can see some progress. But time is running out and we're not where we need to be yet.

 

[barrenjoey]

I agree the Wobberlies are flakey, but that's in the head , they have the talent , the AB's just do their job, every match, they do the basics very well and then can use individual flare when the opportunity arises. Look at Carter, no yap, just does his job very well, year in year out , his team mates could bet the sheep station on his performance every match, they all do and that's the coach, keeps them on message and in the zone(enough cliches)
That's why they are hard to beat , but we can beat them, just a big canary yellow wave moving up the field clinicly disecting any thing in the way, for eighty minutes every game.

 

[Ignoto]

If Deans got them to play like a unit instead of a pack individual rock stars building their own "brand" we might have a chance, ban them from reading the news papers for a start !

The more I hear about who does what in the wallaby camp, that is, what Coach is in charge of what portfolio, the more certain I become that this isn't a Deans issue.

For me, I want to know exactly how and why Williams has and constantly escapes any form of criticism and pressure on his job? Listening to James Horwill on the podcast last week, Williams is in charge of Lineouts and Restarts and acts as a general forwards coach. So, looking at the weekend, our line outs were average, our restarts both receiving and defending were horrible and our forwards did sweet shit all.

More importantly, Horwill alluded that Deans hardly has any contact with the forwards and concentrates his time with the backs (who have outperformed the Forwards in almost every game in the past two seasons).

So, other than trusting his supporting coaches on who to pick, I would dare say Deans has nothing to do with the forwards and that we need to start holding our Forwards coaches accountable.

PS I'm sick to death of people crying for Ewen, Dwyer or Jones....... Your argument looses all credibility with these types of statements because its just plain stupid, there isn't enough time for them to know/put in place anything that would change in time for the world cup.

Bring in some forward advisors is whats a better approach in my books.

 

[Athilnaur]

I can understand coach questions after losing to Samoa, why are we debating the coach for the Eden park game when we haven't won there in 25 years, are playing one of the most successful nz teams in history, and held them to 3 tries to 2 when we played poorly and they played well?

Some of us seem to really grind the axe on this board.

 

[Joe Mac]

I have been a big Deans supporter but the last week has made me question him.

Firstly, he seems to exclude many players who have proven this year that they can outperform their top kiwi counterparts. i.e the many Reds players that seem to have been discarded by Deans for his little crushes. McCalman, McCabe; how the fuck are they in the team instead of A Fainga & Samo...

Secondly, when it was obvious the Australians game plan was not working (spinning it wide) why did they not change what they were doing? The coaching group either failed to prepare for this game with a plan B or the selections i.e. the lack ball runners in the forwards limited them to only play one dimensionally.

Either way, it seems a failure from the coaches in selection and execution...

 

[Blue]

Why is a bledisloe test match all that different to a super xv grand final, nearly all the same players, pretty much same pressure, Aus v NZ , must be the coach. If Deans got them to play like a unit instead of a pack individual rock stars building their own "brand" we might have a chance, ban them from reading the news papers for a start !

You can't be serious. Same players, supplemented with the best in a number of positions and playing in black. If by now you haven't figured out that those two things make a stratospheric difference, you haven't been paying attention for the last 100 years.

Comparing Super Rugby and test rugby is like chalk and cheese, The pace, intensity and accuracy live in another world, especially with the blecks.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

This is not super rugby, it is test rugby. For as long as we try to mimic the Reds we will fail. In the super15 the Reds team of young-guns seemed to perform strongly all season, however we are starting to see the value of experience in the test arena especially after being completely outclassed by the oldest NZ team ever. Super Rugby is 4 months long, test games are taken one at a time with many more players to select from.

 

[Joe Mac]

Then why keep picking all these youngsters when you have many harder and more expoerienced players not even selected in the squad?

The coach selects the team

 

[fatprop]

Then why keep picking all these youngsters when you have many harder and more expoerienced players not even selected in the squad?

The coach selects the team

What harder, more experienced players could we have chosen that would have changed that game?

I can't think of any that either collectively or individually would have changed that result.

 

[Bullrush]

What harder, more experienced players could we have chosen that would have changed that game?

I can't think of any that either collectively or individually would have changed that result.

Mortlock, George Smith....ummmm Phil Waugh........maybe.......

I don't think these guys would have been the difference in playing and getting the Wallabies the win on Saturday but I can't help but think that these guys have played the All Blacks and won consistently at stages in their careers.

I like how Graham Henry has kept older players around who know how to win but have also had heart-breaking losses. Early in his coaching tenure, there was a bit of an emphasis that better people made better players. A lot of the ABs seems like real decent, down-to-earth blokes who have the game of rugby in perspective. Do they want to win the RWC? - more than anyone I reckon. But if they don't, it's still just a game in the greater scheme of things.

 

[all black rugby]

too late barren. We dont want him either. He looks more aussie when he sings australia fair. Poor Robbie. Blame the players.

 

[cyclopath]

I have been a big Deans supporter but the last week has made me question him.

Firstly, he seems to exclude many players who have proven this year that they can outperform their top kiwi counterparts. i.e the many Reds players that seem to have been discarded by Deans for his little crushes. McCalman, McCabe; how the fuck are they in the team instead of A Fainga & Samo...

Secondly, when it was obvious the Australians game plan was not working (spinning it wide) why did they not change what they were doing? The coaching group either failed to prepare for this game with a plan B or the selections i.e. the lack ball runners in the forwards limited them to only play one dimensionally.

Either way, it seems a failure from the coaches in selection and execution...

Listening to some of the quotes from Deans and players, it sounds like the "going wide" early on option was not necessarily the plan, and Genia almost admitted as much. The game plan might have been deficient, but it sounds like the execution was not to plan either. Genia mentioned they saw the spaces in close, yet failed to capitalise on them enough before moving it wide. It begs the question as to what leadership is happening. Someone like Gregan (as captain) would have been telling them to go up the guts, I suspect. Maybe a lack of old heads in general? Who knows.

 

[Richo]

Listening to some of the quotes from Deans and players, it sounds like the "going wide" early on option was not necessarily the plan, and Genia almost admitted as much. The game plan might have been deficient, but it sounds like the execution was not to plan either. Genia mentioned they saw the spaces in close, yet failed to capitalise on them enough before moving it wide. It begs the question as to what leadership is happening. Someone like Gregan (as captain) would have been telling them to go up the guts, I suspect. Maybe a lack of old heads in general? Who knows.

A lack of on-field leadership -- and specifically of the tactical rather than motivational variety -- seems like the most consistent and concerning of the Wallabies' problems in recent times.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

What harder, more experienced players could we have chosen that would have changed that game?

I can't think of any that either collectively or individually would have changed that result.

My thoughts exactly. We have a young team because in aggregate, they are the best players we have available. I'm struggling to think of too many veteran players who would make a stronger case for selection at present. Samo would be one, after the season he's had, but who would be the others? Baxter maybe, but the scrum has been going OK.

 

[RedsHappy]

A lack of on-field leadership -- and specifically of the tactical rather than motivational variety -- seems like the most consistent and concerning of the Wallabies' problems in recent times.

Good point there Richo, likely applying most to the toughest games against the best oppositions. Stating the obvious, the ability to consider and lead rapid (and successful) changes in game tactics is a crucial attribute of good rugby captaincy.

 

[RedsHappy]

My thoughts exactly. We have a young team because in aggregate, they are the best players we have available. I'm struggling to think of too many veteran players who would make a stronger case for selection at present. Samo would be one, after the season he's had, but who would be the others? Baxter maybe, but the scrum has been going OK.

Yes, but:

(a) this is not a dimension just of looking back and playing pretend as to what might have swung the Auckland result. This is just as much about building the most competent team possible for all of 2011 (and maybe beyond). 'Experienced' players like Samo, Sharpe, Baxter etc can potentially bring the personal background and self-confidence built up over many years to constructively argue pre-game for, for example, an altered game plan, tactics etc, as they have 'been there, done that' and have no fear of coaches or other senior players in the team, in the manner less seasoned players sometimes have. Just adding another dimension here, not arguing for player X or Y necessarily, and

(b) the right team selection is, say, 50% of the job winning in the S15 and Tests. The other 50% is, of course, e,g., comprehensive game plan, personal coaching of key players, combinations design and development thereof, core skills indenturing, culture and mindset and mental skills development, tactics vs specific oppositions and opposition players, refs assessment, and much more. I often feel this site in general is mildly obsessed with individual players and selections, and not enough with the management quality and systems that makes them into to a true victory machine that is more than the sum of all of them.

 

[Searsy]

A lack of on-field leadership -- and specifically of the tactical rather than motivational variety -- seems like the most consistent and concerning of the Wallabies' problems in recent times.

This is what I am seeing. I'm sure Robbie wasn't whispering into Quades ear 'If you pass the ball less than 30m, it will explode!'. I would like to know what the discussion is during the 'injury' breaks. Surely if we can all see what is going wrong while nursing a pie and a beer with a kiwi laughing in your ear, one of the players should have.