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Italy v Australia, Sunday Nov 10 2013, Stadio Olimpico

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MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
For all of McKenzie's moaning to the IRB where he probably has a case, it seems no matter what happens to the scrum laws, the same rule as it's always been still applies.

If you are moving forwards, you get the advantage. Your scrum needs to go forwards. End of.
 

Hawko

Tony Shaw (54)
Yep, Ewen has squibbed it.


Not only has he squibbed it but if his selection policies continue then a number of the squad will come home having had nothing but practice holding tackle bags.

The structure of the tour was well set up from the beginning. The two toughest games book-ended the tour with the middle game also being tough, depending how quickly Schmidt can get the Irish to change gameplans. In between those games there are two tests against Italy and Scotland, who are still tier three quality.

Given that we are at the end of a long season and fatigue is a real issue (mainly mental rather than physical IMO) then the selections should have been made so that the load is spread more evenly over the whole squad. Otherwise why bring 30, just select a squad of 23 and fly injury replacements across, its cheaper.

Its more complex than that - different teams have different strengths and weaknesses so you are not just going to put your best team out there on week 1, 3 and 5 and the reserves on week 2 and 4. This week was the week to select our best scrummagers in the front row. It was the ideal week to trial Foley at 10 and Scotland the ideal game to trial Lilo there. Cooper could have backed up from the bench both games. This week was ideal to give Phipps a run at 9, with White getting a start against Scotland and Genia on the bench both times as insurance. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) should have been rested after his heroics last week with Tomane and Cummins starting and CFS on the bench.

Unless we radically rethink what we are doing then we will return from this tour with a large part of the squad totally burnt out and some players, like Ryan, Gill, Dennis, Phipps, Foley, Lilo, Tomane and CFS virtually unused (I don't consider 10 minutes off the bench as being productive use). And we'll never know if they might have made a difference to a team that is certainly not firing on all cylinders.
 

A mutterer

Chilla Wilson (44)
hawko - the problem is that it's not a radical rethink that's required. it's a pretty simple exercise in logic:

if player a is playing less well than player b, replace player a.

i can't see how link can continue to justify stubbornly persisting with his selections. his selections and tactics have not produced results, so logically a change is required. it's not like we're trying to solve quantum physics here.

the definition of insanity - doing the same over and over again and expecting different results.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
I reckon Folau will play a blinder and do to Italy what he did to the Kings and Pumas.
 

scaraby

Ron Walden (29)
Foxsports calls Timani a specialist lineout jumper. If only that was the strangest rugby related news i have heard today.

Italy by 8
no.... think they said he needs a specialized "lineout jumper" (the one with the rockets in the armpits to get off the ground...:p
 

scaraby

Ron Walden (29)
But back to the game...

Rob Simmons is playing 6?

Uh huh.....
Links been listening to us. He now realises that we need 4 second rows in a row to help bind the front row. Hooper will play 8....i better stop..its getting silly:rolleyes:
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
Wake up Dumbledore. This didn't happen to Deans after less than 6 months in the job.

The most galling aspect of criticism of McKenzie is the assumption he doesn't know anything about the scrum. We all remember what position he played and how well he played there, don't we?

It was an entirely tongue in cheek comment. Although one with an element of truth to it. Of course McKenzie knows more than anyone on this forum, in much the same way Deans does. However McKenzie is now doing exactly the sort of thing that had punters utterly frothing over Deans.

I don't mind McKenzie trying stuff, but I would like to hear his rationale for decisions. I'd just like to hear him come out and say yes we got pumped in the scrum last week, however we think this is our best tight five available because yada yada yada. What's the explanation for persisting with Mowen at 8? Why is Simmons being tried at 6? Why is Cummins starting ahead of Tomane? Why is Genia getting another go? Why has Foley been dropped? I really think a bit of transparency would go a long way with fans. We, by and large, aren't idiots - so don't try and ice us out.
 

jay-c

Ron Walden (29)
What's the explanation for persisting with Mowen at 8? Why is Simmons being tried at 6? Why is Cummins starting ahead of Tomane? Why is Genia getting another go? Why has Foley been dropped? I really think a bit of transparency would go a long way with fans. We, by and large, aren't idiots - so don't try and ice us out.
mowen@8- we need him in the team for the lineout to cover timani who cant jump whos covering the props who cant push (makes sense huh)
simmons@6- see above and while we have him and mowen playing this is the best way to fit them in
cummins>tomane- superior defense and considering the amount of tries we've leaked on the wing this year its actually a good decision
genia- combination with cooper and unless its raining whites got nothing over him (he shouldnt be box kicking thou)
foley- position is already well covered- even though i agree with you
as much as ive bagged mckenzie myself its not the bosses job to be reporting to anyone or explaining his decisions to the fans
he actually needs to maintain an arrogant 'better than everyone' attitude as the boss otherwise noone will see him as the best man for the job
 

scaraby

Ron Walden (29)
It was an entirely tongue in cheek comment. Although one with an element of truth to it. Of course McKenzie knows more than anyone on this forum, in much the same way Deans does. However McKenzie is now doing exactly the sort of thing that had punters utterly frothing over Deans.

I don't mind McKenzie trying stuff, but I would like to hear his rationale for decisions. I'd just like to hear him come out and say yes we got pumped in the scrum last week, however we think this is our best tight five available because yada yada yada. What's the explanation for persisting with Mowen at 8? Why is Simmons being tried at 6? Why is Cummins starting ahead of Tomane? Why is Genia getting another go? Why has Foley been dropped? I really think a bit of transparency would go a long way with fans. We, by and large, aren't idiots - so don't try and ice us out.

From ARU WEBSITE...he's trying....
Qantas Wallabies forward Rob Simmons has been chosen at blindside flanker in the only change made to the starting line-up for Saturday’s (Sunday morning 1am AEDT) second Spring Tour Test against Italy at Stadio Olimpico.

A knee injury at training forced Simmons to miss Australia’s opening clash of the Spring Tour but he now returns to take the place of fellow injured teammate Scott Fardy, who is unavailable for selection after taking a head knock against England.

While regarded as one of Australia’s best locks, Simmons did feature at blindside flanker for the Qantas Wallabies at various stages of their 2011 Rugby World Cup campaign, and has the athletic ability to transition into the role being asked of him on Saturday night.

The selection of Simmons on the side of the scrum in combination with locks Sitaleki Timani and James Horwill strengthens the Qantas Wallabies set-piece while also providing a physical edge against an abrasive Italian forward pack.

I get it but only if they turn up for 80 mins

Three further changes have been made on the bench with backrowers Dave Dennis and Liam Gill, along with winger Joe Tomane, all receiving an opportunity in the matchday squad.

Tomane re-gains selection after injuring himself following a Man of the Match performance against Argentina in Rosario, scoring one and setting up many of the team’s seven tries. AGREE

Dave Dennis comes back into the side after missing last week’s clash against England while Gill gets his first opportunity since coming on as a replacement in Australia’s opening three Tests of The Castrol EDGE Rugby Championship. CAN'T ARGUE EITHER

No.8 Ben Mowen and flyhalf Quade Cooper maintain their leadership responsibilities as captain and vice-captain respectively. NO OTHER CHOICE MAYBE FATCAT BUT HE'S NOT STARTING

Qantas Wallabies coach Ewen McKenzie said the inclusion of Simmons and the changes on the bench were tactical adjustments made to suit the style of game they are preparing to play on Saturday night. (Sunday morning 1am AEDT). UH OH zzzzzzzzzzzzz

“Most of the Italian’s strength is derived through their forwards and that’s where they will look to take us on, especially at set-piece. We have to take them on up front,” McKenzie said.
No you hold them up front and take them on out wide..you play your game

“Having Simmo return will benefit us in that regard. He’s instrumental in us winning our own ball while we’ll be looking for him to put pressure on their lineout, and their scrum. ok fair

“Aside from that, he is one of our most athletic and powerful forwards. He has trained very well at blindside flanker and it will be interesting to see how he goes with a bit more space. EOY EXPERIMENT YAY THATS WHAT THE TOUR'S FOR

“However, no matter what position he is in, he’ll continue to bring his abrasive style. Currently, he sits in the top two for us in terms of the volume of tackles and also his tackle completions.

“We’ve also made changes to our bench to allow a few players an opportunity there. EOY EXPERIMENT YAY THATS WHAT THE TOUR'S FOR


“Joe won our Man of the Match award the last time he played so he has never been too far away from the team. AGREE DESERVES IT

“Liam is a specialist openside flanker which will help Michael Hooper, who has played a lot of Rugby this year. We could also play the two of them on the field later in the game if the circumstances of the game call for it. AGREE

“Dave is a jumper and lineout caller, which gives us a good offset should Simmo move into the second row. It will help us keep our lineout intensity across the whole game.” AGREE


After opening their Spring Tour campaign with a loss, McKenzie said Australia would be determined to rebound against an Italian side which scored two impressive victories over Ireland and France during the 2013 Six Nations.

Victory would also continue Australia’s unbeaten record against Italy, which was extended to 15 games last year following a tight 22-19 victory in Florence.

“There is pressure every week but at the moment we are in the business of winning the next game. Italy is our next opportunity,” McKenzie said. RESPECT LIKE IT

“We’ve never had an easy game here in Italy and even last year they had a chance to tie the game after the final siren. There wouldn’t be anyone in the Six Nations who would say coming here and winning is easy. RESPECT LIKE IT


“They grow an extra leg playing at home and we recognise that going into the match.” RESPECT LIKE IT

He must have been watching GAGR ;)
 

Zander

Ron Walden (29)
When is Ewen expecting to rest these players? Does he rate Italy higher than Wales and Ireland? Absurd.
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
I suspect some of Ewen's honey moon period has been eaten up by residual punter discontent, lingering from Dean's belated boning.

Usually first year coaches can by and large get away with whatever they like. But I will admit I could live with all of Ewen's other perplexing selections, except the front row. That is growing old, quick.
 

jay-c

Ron Walden (29)
I suspect some of Ewen's honey moon period has been eaten up by residual punter discontent, lingering from Dean's belated boning.

Usually first year coaches can by and large get away with whatever they like. But I will admit I could live with all of Ewen's other perplexing selections, except the front row. That is growing old, quick.

i can honestly see the logic (even though i dont agree with all of it, for example picking backrows to cover second row deficiencies who are picked to cover front row deficiencies) in almost all his decisions except the front row

the worst thing is sooner or later we are going to fluke a good game from the front row, at which point we'll hold up that moment as an example and forget every other occasion and kid ourselves into thinking we are on the right track

a big part of the problem is perception for us and while we are seen to favour weak front rowers over mobility the rest of the world will perceive us to be weak in the front row> its sounds pretty fucking simple doesnt it
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The other side of that could be:

Link is persisting with Mowen at 8 despite the fact that he hasn't played a single good test at number 8.

Simmons is being picked at 6 because he's been our best lock and Fardy's injury provides an easy avenue to bring him back into the side without hurting Timani or Horwill's feelings. As for picking a player to play flanker who has never played a game of professional rugby there, well, we're hoping it doesn't prove to be a disaster in the same vein as when Horwill was selected to play 6 for the Reds.

Genia was arguably the world's best halfback sometime in 2010 or 2011 and we're hoping that he magically finds that form again after playing probably his worst test ever a week ago.
 
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wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Who would you play at 6? Dennis? Gill? The cupboard is pretty bare.


Have you ever played under a coach who was concerned about hurting your feelings? Bizarre.
 

Dumbledore

Dick Tooth (41)
he actually needs to maintain an arrogant 'better than everyone' attitude as the boss otherwise noone will see him as the best man for the job

That makes no sense to me at all. I'll see him as the best man for the job if he proves he's the best man for the job. I want to here the explanation for the processes the Wallabies are going through. Even if you disagree with certain individual decisions, as long as the fundamental processes are in good shape then you have to assume that eventually the team will come good.

Currently I don't know where we stand on a lot of things. I don't understand what we're trying to do at the breakdown. I don't understand what the go is with Genia box-kicking. I don't understand why we're still seeing Hooper and Mowen meerkating at the back of the scrum. Why aren't these questions being asked by journalists? And if they are being asked, why aren't they being answered?

Take the meerkating, are Hooper and Mowen being instructed to do that, or are they taking it upon themselves? If it's not a coaching instruction, why aren't they being coached to just stick their heads down and push? And if it is a coaching instruction, why are we willingly sacrificing scrum strength for marginally better line speed on defence off the base of the scrum?
 
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