ISA Rugby 2013

[pigprop]

Anyone know the stannies vs pius score?

28 or 29 all

 

[sarcophilus]

See this has now led to someone talking about "privilege" at the ISA site.
Hopefully there are some around from AAGPS to teach us. Or someone from the CAS

The strength of the ISA is growing because it has not had the same exclusive attitude of the older associations. Its only a little bit exclusive as it allows "associate members" that are allowed to play as long as they know they are granted a privilege by those excluded by those excluded by AAGPS

associates must now touch their toes and learn the phrase "thank you sir and can I have another"

seriously anyone discussing privilege.....get over yourself

 

[rugbydownsouth]

See this has now led to someone talking about "privilege" at the ISA site.
Hopefully there are some around from AAGPS to teach us. Or someone from the CAS

The strength of the ISA is growing because it has not had the same exclusive attitude of the older associations. Its only a little bit exclusive as it allows "associate members" that are allowed to play as long as they know they are granted a privilege by those excluded by those excluded by AAGPS

associates must now touch their toes and learn the phrase "thank you sir and can I have another"

seriously anyone discussing privilege...get over yourself

Taking some time to think following the uproar, I can't agree more. As a St Pat's supporter I regret the elitist persona and perspective I portrayed. It was a bad day for both schools, particularly St Pat's. there actions really detracted from the success of St Augustine's ISA campaign. They really are a great team and rugby programme as a whole. I also wish them and Oakhill the best of luck in the Waratah Shield, hopefully an ISA victory.

The comment on privilege was a thoughtless comment made in response to another thoughtless comment. The ISA is a great competition and there is no place for elitism, as I and a few other St Pat's supporters displayed recently. The ability of the ISA to accommodate non-member schools is what makes it great and competitive. It is probably good that the ISA season has ended for St Pat's and some serious reflection occurs.

Cheers

 

[bluegoldblue]

So what was the final table? Predictions for next year?

 

[RugbyTears]

So what was the final table? Predictions for next year?

Not official at all --- I think it was 1) Auggies 2) Oakhill 3) Kinross 4)Pats 5) Stannies 6) Gregs 7) Pius. As for next year, suspect much of the same except Stannies will definitely be a few notches higher and Kinross will be a few lower. But having said that, if we go double rounds, things maybe less predictable in mid table or maybe someone can catch Auggies on an off day.

 

[Tom Ando]

Other results from Div 2 last Saturday

Central Coast 43 def. All Saints 10

Redlands 38 def. St Andrews 26

Don't know what happened in the Redlands game. Maybe with SACS guaranteed a semi's spot they wanted to try a few things.

Can someone tell me why Div 1 don't have semi's and finals? It seems like such a let down and a bit of an anti climax.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Is there any news at all about the so called ISA Div 3 competition involving the likes of BMGS, Oxley and others (3rd XVs from Oakhill and Stannies and Auggies)

 

[Quick Hands]

Is there any news at all about the so called ISA Div 3 competition involving the likes of BMGS, Oxley and others (3rd XVs from Oakhill and Stannies and Auggies)

I think that it ended up with some of the same mismatches that we've seen in GPS when and A team plays a C team. BMGS & Oxley too good in the age groups - not sure about 3rd XV.

 

[Whale berry]

I noted the Pius U13A went through undefeated and spanked most of the other teams.
I thought there might be hope for Pius in 5 years time but by then the Pius boys will playing against the scholarship boys that come into some other schools.
There is a thread on another topic that discussed the year when some boys actually went to their respective schools.
I wonder what the results would be if we asked the same question of some of the gun ISA sides

 

[Tom Ando]

I think that it ended up with some of the same mismatches that we've seen in GPS when and A team plays a C team. BMGS & Oxley too good in the age groups - not sure about 3rd XV.

I think Oxley went undefeated this year in the 1st/3rd XV comp. Some scored around 50-0, closest I know of was 10-0 with Auggies 3rd XV

 

[RugbyTears]

Attached is the Div 3 comp table at the end of the season.
I have been following the 'experiment' in Div 3 closely this year. I think it was a success. There were a couple of lopsided scores as pointed out by Q-Hands & Ando but it wasn't a case of one school dominating another another across the board. If you look at the tables, different schools ended at the top end in the diffrent age groups. Important thing is, the people from BMG and Oxley reckons this has given them a new lease in life. Their kids got a huge buzz beating Oakhill or Auggies or St Pats or Stannies. They didn't care it was the C team from the big schools and it shouldn't matter. What matters is these kids will sign up for rugby again next year and their mates who were sitting on the sideline this year will also sign up.
Don't forget it wasn't that long ago Oakhill was playing Kings Cs or Shore Cs. Look at where they are now. Key is getting the numbers in and winning tends to help a lot.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Thanks for that response RugbyTears.

IMHO there are almost zero opportunities for real growth in Schoolboy Rugby in GPS, CAS and ISA Div 1.

These organisations are more or less at saturation point. If St Pius raise a C Team in the 13's and 16's and a 3rd XV in the opens, or one year Shore raise a 13F, 16E and 7thXV team that they did not field the previous year, then that is to be celebrated but in reality it is limited growth in an already saturated market.

Converting a new School to Rugby, or a School going from having just a Senior team and Junior team, to one team in each grade is to be celebrated with gusto.

With CAS and AAGPS effectively being a closed shop, we are only ever going to see these gains being made in the CCC, AICES, CHS and ISA associations.

An existing ISA minnow is not going to have a programme that can foot it in the early stages in ISA Div 1 or ISA Div 2.


ISA also appear to be a progressive enough association to welcome "new entrants" even if they have had previous alignments with other associations such as CCC, or CAS (Barker Girls play ISA Sport).

This highlights the vital importance of ISA Div 3 Rugby as the only real potential vehicle for genuine expansion of rugby within Sydney/NSW Schools.

The similar arguments exist for the current AAGPS arrangements for the AAGPS rugby minnows Grammar, High, TAS 1st XV to play in a AAGPS Div II type competition against more suitable opponents while they rebuild (or simply maintain) their rugby programmes.

I say well done to the ISA administrators and the Teachers, coaches and students at BMGS, Oxley, Scots and others who have played in the ISA Div 3 this year.

We should do more to promote and celebrate these performances.

Maybe ISA Div 3 should chose a Rep team to play against AICES, Sydney Junior Districts, the Vic SRU, or even tour NZ (I am sure that suitable opposition could be found there) or the Islands.

 

[thejuggler]

Attached is the Div 3 comp table at the end of the season.
I have been following the 'experiment' in Div 3 closely this year. I think it was a success. There were a couple of lopsided scores as pointed out by Q-Hands & Ando but it wasn't a case of one school dominating another another across the board. If you look at the tables, different schools ended at the top end in the diffrent age groups. Important thing is, the people from BMG and Oxley reckons this has given them a new lease in life. Their kids got a huge buzz beating Oakhill or Auggies or St Pats or Stannies. They didn't care it was the C team from the big schools and it shouldn't matter. What matters is these kids will sign up for rugby again next year and their mates who were sitting on the sideline this year will also sign up.
Don't forget it wasn't that long ago Oakhill was playing Kings Cs or Shore Cs. Look at where they are now. Key is getting the numbers in and winning tends to help a lot.

Couldn't agree more that the Div 3 Comp was a success, judging by the Oxley games I saw this year (v St Pius and v Augies). Like Chev in Div II, the Oxley 1st XV had some good players who would be seriously considered if were they at schools like St Pats, or Oakhill and Augies. This comp gave them something to play for when taking on the bigger schools, and at the same time, gave the lesser schools a sense that they could make each game a contest even if they knew they couldn't win the comp. The players in the bigger schools' third XV also got to bask in the limelight of playing in the day's feature match when they played away from home.
As Mark Sinderberry used to say when he was CEO of the Brumbies, "it's the guys who played 2nd XV and 3rd XV that I look for after they leave school. Most of the 1st XV stars feel they have nothing left to prove, and more often that not, don't go on with their rugby. The guys who played 2nds and 3rds are still hungry, and we can work with that".

Looking forward to watching Chev go around in the Div II semis this weekend. They should be a chance in each of the age groups (U16s especially) and the First XV. Go you good thing, Tom Ando!

 

[Tom Ando]

Couldn't agree more that the Div 3 Comp was a success, judging by the Oxley games I saw this year (v St Pius and v Augies). Like Chev in Div II, the Oxley 1st XV had some good players who would be seriously considered if were they at schools like St Pats, or Oakhill and Augies. This comp gave them something to play for when taking on the bigger schools, and at the same time, gave the lesser schools a sense that they could make each game a contest even if they knew they couldn't win the comp. The players in the bigger schools' third XV also got to bask in the limelight of playing in the day's feature match when they played away from home.
As Mark Sinderberry used to say when he was CEO of the Brumbies, "it's the guys who played 2nd XV and 3rd XV that I look for after they leave school. Most of the 1st XV stars feel they have nothing left to prove, and more often that not, don't go on with their rugby. The guys who played 2nds and 3rds are still hungry, and we can work with that".

Looking forward to watching Chev go around in the Div II semis this weekend. They should be a chance in each of the age groups (U16s especially) and the First XV. Go you good thing, Tom Ando!

Personally I'm hoping the change the rigid rules around qualification into Div 1 ISA because I sense for Chev in particular, and Redfield who have been consistent for the last 3 years, deserve a crack at Div 1. I would agree that Oakhill and Auggies are a class above what Chev or Redfield could offer in the division, but both schools are only getting better. Being part of the First XV this year at Chev, I know they are looking at really improving the standard in the next couple of years and not only improve the image but participation numbers and success. That will all take time but to beat Pius 1st XV/Opens squad in a trial (whether it was or wasn't their preferred squad used throughout the year) and some positive results in nearly all age groups in previous years against St Gregs, I think it shows we are making some progress. I believe a big factor for Chev moving down was the fact that Div 1 require at least two teams in each age group. Personally I don't agree with that policy. If you have schools with two teams but don't compete, why can't a school with one team in each age group take their place? I know its not as simple as that but it would be worth readdressing.

Haha thank you thejuggler. I'm looking forward to it! No doubt there will be some extra intensity after our previous round games

 

[exISA]

Personally I'm hoping the change the rigid rules around qualification into Div 1 ISA because I sense for Chev in particular, and Redfield who have been consistent for the last 3 years, deserve a crack at Div 1. I would agree that Oakhill and Auggies are a class above what Chev or Redfield could offer in the division, but both schools are only getting better. Being part of the First XV this year at Chev, I know they are looking at really improving the standard in the next couple of years and not only improve the image but participation numbers and success. That will all take time but to beat Pius 1st XV/Opens squad in a trial (whether it was or wasn't their preferred squad used throughout the year) and some positive results in nearly all age groups in previous years against St Gregs, I think it shows we are making some progress. I believe a big factor for Chev moving down was the fact that Div 1 require at least two teams in each age group. Personally I don't agree with that policy. If you have schools with two teams but don't compete, why can't a school with one team in each age group take their place? I know its not as simple as that but it would be worth readdressing.

Haha thank you thejuggler. I'm looking forward to it! No doubt there will be some extra intensity after our previous round games

Would love to Chev back up to Div 1 like of years gone by. Losing boarders at chev really hurt not only rugby but all sport in general. Back in my day we had a 3rd XV , sometimes fielding a 4th XV and years before that (2 or 3 ) there was 5 teams in the opens - attributed to the boarding numbers.

Chev actually won the first 3 ISA comps from 1992 - 1994 (Correct me if I am wrong) . I just remember my first senior year was the year we lost the title.

It was a great move to go down to Div 2 (although it hurt the pride of some of the long time coaches there) , they just needed to get back into a "winning" frame of mind. Same thing happened to the club side I coached - we won the comp (div 2) one year, got moved up to the 1st div and got our asses handed to us - dejecting some guys and losing some players as a result - moved down to 3rd div this year and made the semis - much more enjoyable if you are competitive.

Best of luck this weekend against Central Coast - although I get on well with P Geddes now days after seeing him a few times since leaving school - there is a strange satisfaction in watching his teams lose and the obligatory clip board and some expletives go flying from him .

 

[Quick Hands]

No doubt the 3rd Div has been a success, but it does need some tweeking I think. Not much fun if you're a C player, who only plays because of school rules say you must, and spend 2 hours each way on a bus to get walloped by 50 or 60 points. Particularly when much bigger A players spend the second half calling for hit of the week against boys half their size.

 

[I like to watch]

The thing that bothers me most about blowout scores,is that in most cases it points to a physical mismatch.
The mungo's have a mercy rule in the juniors,
Get 50 in front and the game ends.
As you say it's bad enough to be humbled by the scoreboard,being lined up to get smashed by bigger/better players shouldn't be part of the experience.

 

[Fair Play]

No doubt the 3rd Div has been a success, but it does need some tweeking I think. Not much fun if you're a C player, who only plays because of school rules say you must, and spend 2 hours each way on a bus to get walloped by 50 or 60 points. Particularly when much bigger A players spend the second half calling for hit of the week against boys half their size.

Quick Hands - I saw a few games in the 3rd Div this year. In virtually every game I saw, the "C" players from the 1st Division schools were by far much bigger boys than the "A" players from the 3rd Div schools.

 

[Tom Ando]

Maybe the likes of Oxley can play the 2nd XV teams from Div 1? That could be come Div 3 and Div 4 is the C grade teams.

 

[Quick Hands]

Quick Hands - I saw a few games in the 3rd Div this year. In virtually every game I saw, the "C" players from the 1st Division schools were by far much bigger boys than the "A" players from the 3rd Div schools.

I'm not saying it happened in every game, but it certainly happened.

My point being smaller schools playing As on As often results in a mismatch, but that if an A team playing a C team results in a similar mismatch, it's just as wrong and the system needs to be tweeked.

The GPS are experiencing the same issues - last week Grammar 14As beat Newington 14Cs 104-0. Blue Mountains 14As beat Augustines 14Cs 60-0 and then 5 of the team ran back on and played 15As. BMGS As were much bigger than Augustines Cs.