Ireland v Wallabies - Sunday 1 Dec, 2:10 AEDT

[LeCheese]

My thoughts on the head contact, as promised, you lucky dogs:

Fuck me there's some wank about head contact going on in here. Have a word to yourselves after reading the head contact process, some of you.

Facts:
- The ball carrier did not change height, direction, or anything else that could be factored into the point of contact.
- The distance or speed into contact is only relevant insofar as judging force.
- Tackler was low initially and then stood up as contact approached.

Therefore it is reasonable to assume the tackler's intent was to initiate head contact - or they're a giant pussy wearing a bad mullet who was scared of Valetini's ribs.

Using the process, the Italian ref and French TMO - while sharing a mutual love of fine cuisine and surrendering in armed conflicts - have somehow talked themselves down to "low danger".

In opposition to every other incident we've seen of this nature.

Which is a fucking joke, given the questions in the frame work. "Force" is a consideration, but it is not a qualifying or dismissive criteria.

Step through the flow and you'll answer the question.

For me: Yellow Card, not enough to be red, and referral to a better barber.

Hear hear! Excellent summation, Mr Pfitzy.

I went back and rewatched it to see if the term 'low force' or 'low danger' was used by the officials in their justification - it was (rightfully) 'low danger'. The referee stated that he only saw 'low danger' and sought confirmation from the ARs and TMO - who all agreed. It did make me think, have we ever seen an instance where an AR or TMO has spoken up in disagreement?

 

[BDA]

JAS - I had to check a few times to see if he was on the field, just didn't seem to be active in attack, and saw at least one shoulder charge on a player who had already got rid of the ball..

I wonder whether theyve told JAS to just keep things simple in terms of his role on the field, given how new he is to the side. I cant image they told him to go looking for work like more experienced backs can do. The good thing is we are probably only seeing a small portion of what he can offer to the team once he gets more comfortable

 

[A mutterer]

its really annoying that lolesio is being backed so hard when people were bitching incessantly about foley's popgun boot. we were pinned down hard in our own half because lolesio cant gain territory and the Irish worked that intelligently. winnable game let down by the 1% to 5%. or the 10 to 15 metres in clearing kicks, or kicks not going out.

we've now got credible world 15 players in a few positions, let's hope we can build on that. bobby V, fraser standouts again.

there's hope across the board but someone needs to be looking hard at 10 going that could be me in gold next year.

 

[JRugby2]

Hear hear! Excellent summation, Mr Pfitzy.

I went back and rewatched it to see if the term 'low force' or 'low danger' was used by the officials in their justification - it was (rightfully) 'low danger'. The referee stated that he only saw 'low danger' and sought confirmation from the ARs and TMO - who all agreed. It did make me think, have we ever seen an instance where an AR or TMO has spoken up in disagreement?

It very rarely happens, and subtly (usually from the TMO who will just ‘show them the incident again’). Brett Cronan TMO for Angus Gardner, NZ v ARG there was a penalty where this seemed to happen.

but otherwise rarely - and it’s usually a pointless collective agreement.

only other famous one I can think of is in the final Lions test vs NZ where Jerome (AR) talked Romaine out of the final offside penalty into making it accidental offside.

 

[BDA]

The difference between the lineout success this week and the abysmal performance last week perfectly illustrates the detrimental effect playing Skelton has on the team. His other assets, ability to disrupt the opposition maul and atytracting multiple defenders when carrying don't compensate for the losses of possession and territory that occur by not having a proper jumper in the lineout. Just how many carries did he make in the game against Scotland? I seem to recall someone listing it as about 6 or 8 carries only, and every one of them was easily handled by the Scottish defence. We, and that means Schmidt and his assistants, should now realise that we have sufficient effective Locks here and as far as test selection is concerned, put Skelton out to pasture.

I tend to agree that based at the type of game we are developing and looking at the games where i think we played our best footy, i probably dont have skelton in our best 15. Thats said schmidt might see things differently. To be fair to skelton, im not sure you can blame the lineout woes from the scotland game on him excusively because we lost fessler and frost shortly before kick. I definitely expect to see skelton in the squad

 

[Strewthcobber]

The big lesson from the Scotland match is to make sure you have an experienced line-out caller on the field, especially when you also have Skelton the field

 

[BDA]

Whether skelton is in the starting side or not i would now confidently say that your picking the pack on the basis of wilson/val/mcreight are your starting backrow. The calls to bench wilson to make way for skelton should be over

 

[Pfitzy]

have we ever seen an instance where an AR or TMO has spoken up in disagreement?

They don't tend to last long, if they do.

Master punishes us unless Dobby gets a sock...

 

[upthereds#!]

The difference between the lineout success this week and the abysmal performance last week perfectly illustrates the detrimental effect playing Skelton has on the team. His other assets, ability to disrupt the opposition maul and atytracting multiple defenders when carrying don't compensate for the losses of possession and territory that occur by not having a proper jumper in the lineout. Just how many carries did he make in the game against Scotland? I seem to recall someone listing it as about 6 or 8 carries only, and every one of them was easily handled by the Scottish defence. We, and that means Schmidt and his assistants, should now realise that we have sufficient effective Locks here and as far as test selection is concerned, put Skelton out to pasture.

TBF, last week they had LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) AND Skelton starting together. The lineout was fine when it was Frost/Skelton.

 

[Tomikin]

TBF, last week they had LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) AND Skelton starting together. The lineout was fine when it was Frost/Skelton.

You mean when we had uru at 6

 

[upthereds#!]

You mean when we had uru at 6

Yeh sure, but the comment I was responding to was when Skelton was there there were NO jumpers. There was never meant to be 'no' jumpers. And in the 'prime' starting squad, there wouldn't be 'no' jumpers.

Just 1 in frost probably lol....... but not 0! We do not know what a 4.Frost 5.Skelton 6. Valetini 7. Mcreight 8. Wison lineout would look like.

Buttttt yeh probably not great. It's a shame our first choice 6 & 8 are 3rd string jumpers.

Our lineout was better without Skelton, but it's not like we stole heaps or scored rolling maul tries etc, but they scored off mauls on THEIR lineouts which doesn't happen with Skelton, who helps us score tries in our mauls.

Tough trade.

 

[stillmissit]

Not kicking 10 rows back in the stand but only gaining 15 to 20m downfield. Lolosio sadly just does not have it in his game.

Good point. It strikes me as a basic skill every 10 should have. I can't think of another kicker we have played in this series who didn't use the drop punt for line out kicks.

 

[stillmissit]

Ireland lineout was there for the taking

I thought it was odd that we didn't compete in the lineout at all in the first half. A couple in the 2nd half.

 

[stillmissit]

Our lineout was better without Skelton, but it's not like we stole heaps or scored rolling maul tries etc, but they scored off mauls on THEIR lineouts which doesn't happen with Skelton, who helps us score tries in our mauls.

I thought our lineout was average and our mauling poor without Skelton. I thought without Skelton we would be using our lineout as a weapon against Ireland but we just let them have their ball, was this a game plan to not compete? Seemed like it to me.

 

[Brumby Runner]

But he does miss touch from his open field clearing kicks, quite a lot

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

There is no question he should be getting more distance with his kicks for touch, but he's not Robinson Crusoe. The poorest touch finders in this game were put in by Jake Gordon and Tate McDermott. Both kicked for touch just inside their 22m and found it less than 10m out of the 22m. Tom Wright also had a couple of clearance kicks that failed to find touch. Contrarily, Noah actually put in the best clearance kick of the day with one from deep in the 22m to find touch just on halfway.

On the No 9s, I reckon the new 5 second 'use it' is affecting them both. They dick around getting the ball out of the ruck and are under pressure to get the clearance away before the time expires. Some of those clearances in this game only went less than 10m and possession was turned over very near our own 22m. They seem to be under more pressure than the opposing No 9s so it's likely to be of their own making.

 

[Brumby Runner]

TBF, last week they had LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) AND Skelton starting together. The lineout was fine when it was Frost/Skelton.

When was it Frost/Skelton? Certainly, not in the Scotland match. Frost replaced Skelton and that's when the lineout started to function and actually won a couple oagainst the Scottish throw. Are you talking about another game?

 

[stillmissit]

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

There is no question he should be getting more distance with his kicks for touch, but he's not Robinson Crusoe. The poorest touch finders in this game were put in by Jake Gordon and Tate McDermott. Both kicked for touch just inside their 22m and found it less than 10m out of the 22m. Tom Wright also had a couple of clearance kicks that failed to find touch. Contrarily, Noah actually put in the best clearance kick of the day with one from deep in the 22m to find touch just on halfway.

On the No 9s, I reckon the new 5 second 'use it' is affecting them both. They dick around getting the ball out of the ruck and are under pressure to get the clearance away before the time expires. Some of those clearances in this game only went less than 10m and possession was turned over very near our own 22m. They seem to be under more pressure than the opposing No 9s so it's likely to be of their own making.

There was a post yesterday suggesting that Lolesio has a poor kicking style for general play kicking. Something about round kicking v straight kicking.
Agree that the 9's were under pressure due to the delay in getting the ball back.

 

[Tomthumb]

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

There is no question he should be getting more distance with his kicks for touch, but he's not Robinson Crusoe. The poorest touch finders in this game were put in by Jake Gordon and Tate McDermott. Both kicked for touch just inside their 22m and found it less than 10m out of the 22m. Tom Wright also had a couple of clearance kicks that failed to find touch. Contrarily, Noah actually put in the best clearance kick of the day with one from deep in the 22m to find touch just on halfway.

On the No 9s, I reckon the new 5 second 'use it' is affecting them both. They dick around getting the ball out of the ruck and are under pressure to get the clearance away before the time expires. Some of those clearances in this game only went less than 10m and possession was turned over very near our own 22m. They seem to be under more pressure than the opposing No 9s so it's likely to be of their own making.

Huh? How is he damned if he kicks the ball better?

Fact was it was his poor kick from the mark that led to Irelands 2 try and it was his poor goal line drop out that led to Irelands 3rd try. You cant give Ireland so much ball from broken play and hope to stop them

 

[John S]

There was a post yesterday suggesting that Lolesio has a poor kicking style for general play kicking. Something about round kicking v straight kicking.
Agree that the 9's were under pressure due to the delay in getting the ball back.

Was that just them dicking around, or the Irish laying all over the ruck willy nilly?

 

[stillmissit]

Was that just them dicking around, or the Irish laying all over the ruck willy nilly?

Combo John, I have always been concerned about Gordon taking his time at the back and was surprised with McDermott as I thought he would speed the game up. Laying in the ruck slowing down ball has always been a penalty but if you don't play to the ref or appeal to him then you deserve what you get.