Ireland v Wallabies - Sunday 1 Dec, 2:10 AEDT

[HogansHeros]

He was already knocking blokes over. And outrunning many of them as well.

Ain't broke? Don't fix it.

He is listed at 120kg, the top speed confuses people, but he doesnt need to put on weight.
Hope he does become a bit more physical as he matures tho.

 

[Overtime]

Agree on flyhalf Phil. Donno got little minutes and will have to play well in Super rugby. I just don’t see why Noah is being persisted with. When we needed him to get the backline going at the back end he didn’t. As many have brought up, his touch finding is below par compared to Donno’s. Maybe Joe didn’t want a revolving door and I totally get that. I just believe he has backed the wrong horse. Flyhalf is definitely up for grabs next season.

Donno, has a huge boot on him. He has also been prone to a few errors. Noah has of late as well such as his failed start kicks to go the required meters. Donno is getting better at cutting the mistakes from his game. I am still not sure either are the long-term answer. I don't think Lynagh is either.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I love the idea that Tate McDermott isn't practicing his passing

 

[Pfitzy]

So Tate McDermott couldn’t improve his pass as a man in his mid twenties because our pathways aren’t great?

I know this will be hard for you: stop being facetious

 

[Alex Sharpe]

I find the fact Tate McDermott has been a professional rugby player for 8 years and hasn’t bothered improving his passing or kicking at all is a bit of an indictment of his dedication (or lack thereof) to be honest

Feels like we have quite a few players like that. Make super rugby and just think they have made it and plateau and stop doing the extras to continue to improve

I highly doubt it's due to a lack of dedication. He has captained Queensland and Australia, which wouldn't happen without a strong work ethic. Players have strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he just hasn't had the right specialist coaching, or maybe he just doesn't have the raw materials for a world class pass

 

[Wilson]

I find the fact Tate McDermott has been a professional rugby player for 8 years and hasn’t bothered improving his passing or kicking at all is a bit of an indictment of his dedication (or lack thereof) to be honest

Feels like we have quite a few players like that. Make super rugby and just think they have made it and plateau and stop doing the extras to continue to improve

What are you talking about? He's clearly improved his passing and kicking (along with other aspects of his play) over his years playing super and test match rugby. Some of the ways he has done this include engaging outside help and by proactively learning from senior teammates (when he had them). This is something he's kept up throughout his career and there has been plenty of evidence on the field and talk in the media about those improvements. Don't get me wrong he still has bad games, as he did here, but to suggest he hasn't been working on it is a ridiculous (and patently false) assertion.

Beyond this though, if our players aren't developing the skills they need this is fundamentally and issue for our development pathways and elite level coaching. It's great if a player wants to take the time to get outside help to improve these areas of our game, but the only way we can guarantee the next guy (and the guy after that) will develop the skills we need them to have is to provide that development. Otherwise it's more about individual players driving up their market value to take a big deal elsewhere, and we're never going to fully realize those benefits.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I highly doubt it's due to a lack of dedication. He has captained Queensland and Australia, which wouldn't happen without a strong work ethic. Players have strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he just hasn't had the right specialist coaching, or maybe he just doesn't have the raw materials for a world class pass

Who hasn't at this point.

I think our professional coaches below the HC aren't as good as required. I know it's their pathway as well, but we have so many of the spots filled with blokes after a couple good years of Club Rugby or a recently retired player where these players have seemingly progressed from but then you put them back under their direct tutelage and expect leaps in their skills.

This is a funding thing as much as anything else as our sides aren't going to be signing bigger name coaches as assistants.

Tate would work at it but it is probably something that will never be his strong suit. His brain goes into run mode. No different to wanting other 9s to show more aggression in attack at times and not be a dummy half.

 

[JRugby2]

I find the fact Tate McDermott has been a professional rugby player for 8 years and hasn’t bothered improving his passing or kicking at all is a bit of an indictment of his dedication (or lack thereof) to be honest

Feels like we have quite a few players like that. Make super rugby and just think they have made it and plateau and stop doing the extras to continue to improve

Having come across him a on a few different occasions and in a few different different contexts - I can confidently say he would be up there with the most motivated/ dedicated within the group.

His professionalism would certainly would be leading from the front at the reds, would imagine he would be around the top in the wallabies environment as well.

He's not above criticism and there are some definite skill deficits for a player who's been around for that long , but I don't think this hypothesis as to why is true.

(is this the bit where someone accuses me of being his brothers uncles dog?)

 

[Ignoto]

Those South of the Tweed were pretty quiet when we had to endure Luke "Sydney Harbour Bridge Passer" Burgess for 8 years.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I think looking at AFL helps with this sort of stuff. They are the most accurate punters of a football in the world and 100% professional with their approach to skills development. Ask any AFL player to kick to a spot in training and they will do it.

And yet even the best of the best miss 25%+ of their kicks at goal, because it's far harder to perform this skill while running a 16km and getting tackled 15 times in a game situation.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Those South of the Tweed were pretty quiet when we had to endure Luke "Sydney Harbour Bridge Passer" Burgess for 8 years.

Nah we weren't. Couldn't hit the side of a barn.

 

[LeCheese]

Tate isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his passing.
Noah isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his kicks to touch.
Harry Wilson isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his leg drive through contact.
[Insert hooker here] isn't a professional as he clearly doesn't practice his lineout throwing.
........

Fuck me, it's such a tiring and frankly absurd rhetoric.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Agree completely. It's just a skill set thing.

Select your player in a video game. They all get slightly different attributes. Rugby players also change over time.

 

[Tomthumb]

I love the idea that Tate McDermott isn't practicing his passing

I'm sure he is, which kind of makes his poor passing even worse

 

[Tomthumb]

Agree completely. It's just a skill set thing.

Select your player in a video game. They all get slightly different attributes. Rugby players also change over time.

Yeah but players are allowed to improve in areas they aren't great at

I'm old enough to remember Aaron Smith's atrocious box kicking earlier in his career, yet by the end he was one of the best at it

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I guess it's not a productive point though because he must fit the idea Schmidt has for the type of play he wants. Tate and Gordon are by far the best attacking 9s and he has shown a preference to them. I trust the coaches do work with them on skills, and it might be a reality check to come against teams like Ireland which put more pressure on you that you need to do more...

If he wanted a dummy half with a good pass then Lonergan would be an option but he doesn't seem to be on the radar.

 

[stillmissit]

Game stats for lineouts.

Ireland 23 lineouts with 3 lost, 87%;

Australia 9 lineout with no losses, 100%.

Our lineout was fine and we did compete on Ireland's throw. I recall Wilson winning one at the No 2 spot and may have been more. If not, then one or two must have been won further back.

What would you rather have 23 lineouts at 87% or 9 lineouts at 100%? Strikes me they had double the amount of lineout ball to us and often in our half. due to the pressure to clear the ball.

 

[Strewthcobber]

What would you rather have 23 lineouts at 87% or 9 lineouts at 100%? Strikes me they had double the amount of lineout ball to us and often in our half. due to the pressure to clear the ball.

Missing some tactical decisions here though I reckon.

Do these stats exclude QTI?

Are we prioritising kicking the ball well-out and targetting their lineout with a set defensive line rather than kicking it just out and allowing a QTI and having unstructured play?

Or are we prioritising the other side - we are looking to play on with QTIs so don't have a lot of lineout platforms?

 

[emuarse]

I'm sure he is, which kind of makes his poor passing even worse

Re Tate McDermott.
There are two recent rule changes that make play from behind a scrum or ruck/maul much more difficult forthe halfback:
a) the referees down his throat with the five second rule. This gives the half very little time to make a decision as to box kicking it (and hard/soft the kick), passing it, or running it.
b) that player's on your team can no longer obstruct an opposing (loose) forward aiming to take out the halfback.
So Tomthumb, (by your name, I assume you were a halfback in a subdivision team); think some more before you critise

 

[JRugby2]

Re Tate McDermott.
There are two recent rule changes that make play from behind a scrum or ruck/maul much more difficult forthe halfback:
a) the referees down his throat with the five second rule. This gives the half very little time to make a decision as to box kicking it (and hard/soft the kick), passing it, or running it.
b) that player's on your team can no longer obstruct an opposing (loose) forward aiming to take out the halfback.
So Tomthumb, (by your name, I assume you were a halfback in a subdivision team); think some more before you critise

I disagree the 5 second law has changed much or made it more difficult for him - beyond stopping the relatively new trend of caterpillar rucks, it doesn't do much to game. The struggle mostly comes when the ruck is messy or under pressure from a counter, not when we have clean ball.

5 seconds is a long time - and referees rarely enforce an exact 5 seconds. It's very much just a 'vibe' law that only commences from the "use it" call at which point the ball is available, and then is mostly enforced (as a turn over) around 7-8 seconds.