Red Runner
Tom Lawton (22)
Rennie is 13 from 34 at 38%
joe is 11 from 27 at 41%
Ireland v Wallabies, Saturday 15/11 (Sunday morning Aus time)
- Thread starter Dctarget
- Start date
joe is 11 from 27 at 41%
Brumby Runner
George Gregan (70)
Only 6 players didn't harm their reputations in this game - Bell, Ala'alatoa, McReight, Hooper, Valetini and Ikitau. Williams tried hard but was clearly outjumped in the lineout.
Otherwise, I think it's past time to ignore the likes of JOC (James O'Connor) and Skelton. Their shadows seem to hang over every match they aren't playing. Must be a bit demoralising for those competing for the spots they take when they have the whim.
Two incidents in this test illustrated for me a significant issue with the way rugby is being played in modern Australia. Gibson-Park's quick play-on that led to the first Ireland try, and Prendergast's quick 50/20 after a scrum to set up the play leading to the second Ireland try. These are the types of ad hoc plays that have disappeared from Aussie Super Rugby and Wallabies sides since play has become over-structured. I also think of the many times Aaron Smith would catch our sides asleep with quick play on, and Roigard seems to be developing the same currently.
I think a lot of blame has to be laid at the feet of our Super Rugby coaches, and I include the Brumbies setup in that criticism. The issue is not only that we don't seem to be inclined to look for quick opportunities but we are asleep at the wheel when others do it to us.
Apart from those issues/matters, Joe's selections on this EOYT have been bewildering. A second rate side to face Japan which included 6 players in the starting XV who were not starters in the best XV at that time, Nasser, Nonggorr, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), NCdC, Tizzano and Flook, and then another three on the bench who wouldn't have been in the XXIII, Robertson, Canham and Stewart.
Then 8 changes and 2 positional changes to the starting side for England with another 4 changes to the bench.
Following that, another 4 changes to the starting XV for Italy with 6 changes on the bench.
This match had 6 changes in the XV and 4 more on the bench.
Where is the consistency? How do combinations form with so much churn? Looks very much like our coaches still have no fucking idea about the makeup of our best XV or XXIII.
I agree with comments above that certain players should not be selected again for any test matches, like Jake Gordon, JOC (James O'Connor), Potter, Toole, Robertson, Edmed and Kellaway. Others like Jorgo and Hooper should be cemented into their best spots rather than frequently being shifted to cover a hole where they are not so good, and JAS needs to be played somewhere else. I still don't think he offers enough for the 13 spot. I also think it would be better all round for Joe Schmidt to be released now.
Otherwise, I think it's past time to ignore the likes of JOC (James O'Connor) and Skelton. Their shadows seem to hang over every match they aren't playing. Must be a bit demoralising for those competing for the spots they take when they have the whim.
Two incidents in this test illustrated for me a significant issue with the way rugby is being played in modern Australia. Gibson-Park's quick play-on that led to the first Ireland try, and Prendergast's quick 50/20 after a scrum to set up the play leading to the second Ireland try. These are the types of ad hoc plays that have disappeared from Aussie Super Rugby and Wallabies sides since play has become over-structured. I also think of the many times Aaron Smith would catch our sides asleep with quick play on, and Roigard seems to be developing the same currently.
I think a lot of blame has to be laid at the feet of our Super Rugby coaches, and I include the Brumbies setup in that criticism. The issue is not only that we don't seem to be inclined to look for quick opportunities but we are asleep at the wheel when others do it to us.
Apart from those issues/matters, Joe's selections on this EOYT have been bewildering. A second rate side to face Japan which included 6 players in the starting XV who were not starters in the best XV at that time, Nasser, Nonggorr, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), NCdC, Tizzano and Flook, and then another three on the bench who wouldn't have been in the XXIII, Robertson, Canham and Stewart.
Then 8 changes and 2 positional changes to the starting side for England with another 4 changes to the bench.
Following that, another 4 changes to the starting XV for Italy with 6 changes on the bench.
This match had 6 changes in the XV and 4 more on the bench.
Where is the consistency? How do combinations form with so much churn? Looks very much like our coaches still have no fucking idea about the makeup of our best XV or XXIII.
I agree with comments above that certain players should not be selected again for any test matches, like Jake Gordon, JOC (James O'Connor), Potter, Toole, Robertson, Edmed and Kellaway. Others like Jorgo and Hooper should be cemented into their best spots rather than frequently being shifted to cover a hole where they are not so good, and JAS needs to be played somewhere else. I still don't think he offers enough for the 13 spot. I also think it would be better all round for Joe Schmidt to be released now.
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Major Tom
Chilla Wilson (44)
Well it’s about to be 11 from 28.
stillmissit
John Thornett (49)
I have been saying forever (feels like) that we ain't fit enough. Nothing I saw today changed my view of it. Poor ball chase, slow to breakdown, slow to get up and get into position, very slow to react to the ball on the ground.
Prodigy
Vay Wilson (31)
This is an interesting take.
I think the problem lies in the plans to get him involved. I'd love to see his attacking involvement numbers. As someone who watches his involvements alot more than others, I've seen few opportunities for him in space or time. The majority of his attacking involvements are ruck cleanout, lead run decoys, or short crash balls.
Tell me a 13 in the world who is looking like an attacking threat under that plan.
I don't know where you go for the France test. I think the temptation to move JAS to 15 is tempered by the fact that you know Tom Wright has that jersey under lock and key, provided he returns with some form.
I also don't think JOC (James O'Connor) was a major contributor to the poor play. He was let down by his service, space and support players. Some of them just look gassed.
Something needs to change and perhaps it is the schedule that they keep during this week.
The Ghost of Raelene
Tim Horan (67)
Same story. Sides know if they just grind the Wallabies will break first.
It’s a player quality issue at the end of it. Coaches can only do so much with the material they work with. They can’t run with the big boys for 80. They’ll have occasional peaks in performance but the normal is below the good sides.
It’s a player quality issue at the end of it. Coaches can only do so much with the material they work with. They can’t run with the big boys for 80. They’ll have occasional peaks in performance but the normal is below the good sides.
stillmissit
John Thornett (49)
Agree with a fair bit (UL) of this BR but you are ignoring a couple of key ingredients. The drop off in players in schools, the continual run of injuries (almost needs a senate inquiry) and the lack of attitude in staying in the fight.
We can't just dump players we don't have talent waiting in the wings, we need to ID and learn to develop our talent where possible.
stillmissit
John Thornett (49)
We have one major problem to fix, and that is our forwards, they are collectively crap, we have some good individuals with McRight the best. but in terms of a pack they are very poor. We have the backs to match any team but the ball the forwards are giving them is shit.
Brumby Runner
George Gregan (70)
After a full Super Rugby season, Lions tour and rugby championship I find it hard to believe that the players are not fit enough.
I think the poor ball chase might be caused by the game plan coupled with poor skills. There seems to be only one chaser on most occasions and that must be on the coaches to rectify while no matter who is doing the chasing we almost never regain possession in the contest in the air. Those matters are down to coaching and skills development rather than fitness.
Our players have been slow to react to loose ball over many years. And when they win the race, it seems more often than not that they will knock the ball on. Again, there is an apparent lack of skills and perhaps attitude towards dealing with a loose ball.
Being slow to the breakdown and slow to get up and into position could just as soon be a result of the heavy emphasis on oneout hitups forward dominated play in our game plan. The forwards are exhausted simply by the number of involements they have to get through the way the team is currently playing.
I think the poor ball chase might be caused by the game plan coupled with poor skills. There seems to be only one chaser on most occasions and that must be on the coaches to rectify while no matter who is doing the chasing we almost never regain possession in the contest in the air. Those matters are down to coaching and skills development rather than fitness.
Our players have been slow to react to loose ball over many years. And when they win the race, it seems more often than not that they will knock the ball on. Again, there is an apparent lack of skills and perhaps attitude towards dealing with a loose ball.
Being slow to the breakdown and slow to get up and into position could just as soon be a result of the heavy emphasis on oneout hitups forward dominated play in our game plan. The forwards are exhausted simply by the number of involements they have to get through the way the team is currently playing.
molman
John Thornett (49)
I can't agree on the fact of the team changes being of themselves the issue. There is a raft of counter examples of other International teams making a large number of changes and still being able to put in winning/solid performances (just take a look at SA), not to mention that most of these players have now played together at some point so I would hardly say the lineups have been low on cohesion.
Our issue is clearly our axis and the unfortunate situation we have at 10.
stillmissit
John Thornett (49)
I think they are fit enough to play Super Rugby but not international rugby. This is written all over the pitch by knock ons, fumbles, poor jumping and slow chasing.
Re The ball chase, watch Mack Hansen chasing the ball on his own, and tell me how many times you saw a Wallaby player chase kicks like that?
BR the rest of your reply appears like an apology for failure, I am of the opinion that a harder coach needs to take the reins, and that ain't Les.
rugbyAU
Peter Johnson (47)
Schmidt has lost 60% of his tests, Rennie lost 53%
Wilson
David Wilson (68)
While he was generally good, the back chat penalty definitely harms Ikitau's reputation for mine. That's in part due to how high it is, but a player of his experience shouldn't be giving those away in a test match.
The Ghost of Raelene
Tim Horan (67)
Also screams of a player who is fed up. Wouldn’t blame him to have the shits with half the guys around him.
stillmissit
John Thornett (49)
I suspect Len gets frustrated by the efforts of those around him. He is defined by the work he puts in. I wish the other Wallabies would put in the same effort.
stillmissit
John Thornett (49)
We need to adopt the old adage, 'The Harder I Work, the Luckier I Get!'
Linerunner2023
Syd Malcolm (24)
There is plenty that lacked
The gameplan
Decision to for some reason rest players
Set piece
Desire and hunger
Basic game awareness and execution from the backline
Lack of talent in the outside back with a few injuries
The gameplan
Decision to for some reason rest players
Set piece
Desire and hunger
Basic game awareness and execution from the backline
Lack of talent in the outside back with a few injuries