Ireland v Australia, Saturday 26 November

[wamberal]

You're in a rut. On the other hand, maybe we are both right!!!!!


Talking about the match officials is just pathetic. They don't drop the ball, throw ridiculously risky passes, or try to run the ball like champions from inside the 22.


Ireland had a patched up backline in the second half, we should have scored five frigging tries.

 

[Quick Hands]

Im the first to blame the ref and I can see an issue in the maul interpretation. The try ruling seemed to me to hing on whether Arnold would have got there so its pretty marginal.
So I tend to agree with Wamberal (for the third time in a row today!) Cheika has got to get over this blaming the ref - for all sorts of reasons.

Indeed. He might want to sheet some blame home to the bloke who made 11 changes last week perhaps?

 

[Quick Hands]

The refereeing was not great but it always seems worse after a close fought loss.
The obstruction / try ruling was really the only one to me that stood out as a game changer.
Many of the others were 50/50 calls and while I agree we were not getting the rub of the green they weren't absolute howlers either.
We still had the opportunities to win.
We really only have ourselves to blame.

The refereeing was fine. The Irish try was a try every day of the week and twice on Sunday (for the same reasons that our try against the ABs shouldn't have been disallowed for obstruction).

 

[Joe Blow]

There was some very enterprising play from our backs in the second half. Both DHP and Reece Hodge were dangerous with the ball in hand and made ground each time they touched the pill. Sefa showed that he is a step above Speight in attack and more than adequate defensively.
The game was lost at the coalface and I think Cheika needs to take a good hard look at the personnel he is persisting with in the pack that cause a lot of debate on this and other forums.
We need big hard fast men that have an impact. There is no room for those with a high work rate but that have no physical impact. We need a tight 5 and backups that can carry out their core roles well as well as add more around the park. Being a good lineout technician does not mean jack shit if you cannot monster anyone your size or smaller and carry the ball over the ad line consistently.

 

[KOB1987]

Any ideas on which penalties Cheika has his knickers knotted over?

Who cares? I have had it up to here with Chubby's trantrums.

He is actually being quite humble and diplomatic about it. He said Ireland deserved to win but is questioning the 13-3 penalty count and seems to be more irate at what Ireland was allowed to get away with rather than what we were getting pinged for. He makes special mention of an incident where Pocock was taken out about 10 metres beyond the maul before the first Irish try.

 

[KOB1987]

It was an entertaining game but also very frustrating. We clearly have the cattle but it's our core skills and discipline letting us down. We should have been able to exploit the mismatches in their backline but i think the game plan is too one dimensional.

I'm not that down on our blokes though, overall we are heading in the right direction. Whilst I am neither a Dean Mumm lover nor a hater, I do think it's time to give someone else a run at 6. Fardy probably deserves first shot at it but I'd like to see a longer term solution by the time we reach the June tests next year.

This is a very good Irish team, I won't be surprised if they are at #2 after the 6 nations.

 

[TSR]

And being able to monster people means nothing if you loose every set peice and said player can't keep up with the pace of the game.

Look, I'm playing devils advocate here, but these comments suggest that Cheika is leaving out significantly better players. Timani may have provided more impact than Mumm, but would he have turned the possession tide in the first half? If not, would he have had the work rate in defence to contain the Irish with all their possession. The answer to both those questions could well be yes, and likewise Timani may not have been yellow carded. I'm no real fan of Mumm's, but I think this suggestion that there is a clearly superior option is tenous.

Likewise if Coleman was fit, you'd figure he would get picked in front of Simmons, without question. But he's not. Who is your next choice - Douglas? Skelton? Carter? Or is there another lock that we've been ignoring that is going to smite the Phillistines into submission.

If we were consistently leaving out clearly superior players, than fine - we'd have a reason to gripe. But personally I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we could throw in some of the alternatives and get a significantly different result.

 

[KOB1987]

Rankings after this weekend:
1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 89.84
3 Australia 86.97 (-1.17)
4 Ireland 84.62 (+1.17)
5 ↑ (6) Wales 82.55 (+0.78)
6 ↓ (5) South Africa 81.79 (-0.78)

We can't slip below 3rd, but if we beat England by 1-14 next week:

1 New Zealand 94.78
2 ↑ (3) Australia 88.56 (+0.42)
3 ↓ (2) England 88.26 (-1.59)

 

[Quick Hands]

He is actually being quite humble and diplomatic about it. He said Ireland deserved to win but is questioning the 13-3 penalty count and seems to be more irate at what Ireland was allowed to get away with rather than what we were getting pinged for. He makes special mention of an incident where Pocock was taken out about 10 metres beyond the maul before the first Irish try.

Did he notice the fact that at the breakdown prior to our first try that Pocock came in from the side and went straight off his feet to secure the ball?

I watched the replay this morning and couldn't see any reason for complaints about the referee. Just the usual 50/50 stuff, which on this occasion didn't favour us. I'd be more concerned if referees and ARs were taking a count and trying to even up the penalties rather than just calling it as they see it.

 

[wamberal]

Exactemente, QH.



Blaming the match officials is something we do when we do not want to face up to the truth. The truth is, we were just kack. Almost everything we did turned straight to shite.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Ranking points-wise the result means that the gap between Australia (3rd) and England (2nd) has widened from 1.70 to 2.87 & the gap to Ireland (4th) has narrowed from 4.68 to 2.34 which means the result of next weeks game will affect the points as follows:

England win by 1-15 new points are England 90.25 Australia 86.56
England win by 15+ England 90.46 Australia 86.35
Australia win by 1-15 Australia 88.56 England 88.25
Australia win by 15+ Australia 89.35 England 87.46

As that was Ireland's last match for the year, you'll either be No. 2 or No. 3 in the World at least until the 6N starts.

 

[Pfitzy]

What's this I hear on twitter about McMahon getting tip tackled? Was it penalised?

The penalty count being 13-3 can indicate a lot of things.

Firstly it indicates our discipline is just not good enough.

Secondly it indicates we're not adapting to the way the ref wants the game.

Third, it may indicate that we got some advantage that expired, because I believe those are not tallied in the penalties column.

So the number, in and of itself, may not be the whole story.

 

[fatprop]

Just gotta play better to take any influence of the referee out of the game.

Yeah I agree, be dominant and the ref becomes irrevevant

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah I agree, be dominant and the ref becomes irrevevant

Plus - trying to live on 30% possession when the ref is leaning toward the attacking team is always going to stuff you.

 

[I like to watch]

Just read an SMH article stating that Cheika wants to meet with refs boss.

I think he is better served watching first 1/2 replays to identify why we weren't in the contest.

They led 17-0 and if anything,the score flattered us.
The ref had neglible influence on the score line at that stage.

When you trail by 17 in a test match,you rarely win.
Focus on that,don't look for excuses.

Edit: here's the link
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-boss-after-ireland-loss-20161126-gsyd04.html

 

[Pfitzy]

Actually, if it gets Garces off the fucking ref's list, I'm all for it.

The guy is beaucoup de merde

 

[Micheal]

Just read an SMH article stating that Cheika wants to meet with refs boss.

I think he is better served watching first 1/2 replays to identify why we weren't in the contest.

They led 17-0 and if anything,the score flattered us.
The ref had neglible influence on the score line at that stage.

When you trail by 17 in a test match,you rarely win.
Focus on that,don't look for excuses.

Are they mutually exclusive though?

Is it "meet with refereeing boss to discuss dubious and inconsistent application of laws in regard to Australian team as to improve our refereeing performance moving forward" vs. "improve teams performance in the first half"?

Can't we do both?

Aside from that, is he really looking for excuses? He's acknowledged that we couldn't stay competitive with our penalty count and that we brought it upon ourselves. I certainly don't think he's making excuses.

If theres someone he'll be angry at it'll be the Australian team.

 

[Twoilms]

The thing that irks me the most is that having a bitch about the referees, even in circumstances where it is completely warranted, achieves nothing. If anything it tips the weight of influence against us even further. It checks out too. Think about it, you manage a wide variety of different people and one constantly criticizes you after every negative result. You are most certainly not going to positively reinforce that kind of behavior by being any more lenient on them. You are going to go in the complete opposite direction.

 

[PeterK]

I would say all the penalties against wallabies were correct, with perhaps the exception of the Mumm head high since the player ducked into him and all he did was wrap him up, but there is a focus on contact with the head.

The obstruction was minor and I don't believe he would have tackled him so fair enough.

The issue is garces was inconsistent.
Mauls irish in the side , ignored.
Tackles turning into mauls wallabies held up called early irish given a lot more time.
Holding on, wallabies given 2 secs if that, Pocock has to drag the body for 4-5 secs yet he is penalised when finally cleaned out for handling the ball.
Irish given longer to roll away or ignored.
Owens gets involved and calls a flat pass forward , surely it should go to tmo.
Even then Pocock was head high tackled when he gave that pass no penalty.

 

[PeterK]

What's this I hear on twitter about McMahon getting tip tackled? Was it penalised?

The penalty count being 13-3 can indicate a lot of things.

Firstly it indicates our discipline is just not good enough.

Secondly it indicates we're not adapting to the way the ref wants the game.

Third, it may indicate that we got some advantage that expired, because I believe those are not tallied in the penalties column.

So the number, in and of itself, may not be the whole story.

true but very hard to adjust to the ref if the very same action by ireland is ok yet when wallabies do the same get penalised.