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iRB Meeting to Determine ELVs' fate

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Spook

Guest
Thomond78 said:
And the answer is; by and large, they're dead.

NO FKAGG.

The maul is BACK.

Unfortunately, the two stooooooopid ones preventing the hooker from lifting and the receiver from jumping in the lineout - yes, of course, stop positive attacking play, boys, well done - remain, as does the 22 rule.

But FKAGG is DEAD and the maul LIIIIVVVVVEEEEESSSSSS!!!! ;D :thumb

http://www.irb.com/newsmedia/mediaz...#rugby+stakeholders+agree+elv+recommendations

:nta:

Sanctions and Free Kicks (subsidiary recommendation for further examination) - sounds NOT dead to me.

The maul rule was always stupid and wasn't part of the S14 last year anyway.. By and large the ELVs are still alive. The 2 main ones being :
5 meter scrum and 22 law rule.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Jeez I'd like to see Hands in the Ruck trialled at a fully pro level - it was occasionally messy in the MARC but got a LOT of players into the rucks, freeing up acres elsewhere to make ground. It was a true contest for the ball, but carries risks. Watching David Croft get in there and butt heads with 3 other blokes and STILL win the pill was superb to watch :thumb
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
NTA said:
Jeez I'd like to see Hands in the Ruck trialled at a fully pro level - it was occasionally messy in the MARC but got a LOT of players into the rucks, freeing up acres elsewhere to make ground. It was a true contest for the ball, but carries risks. Watching David Croft get in there and butt heads with 3 other blokes and STILL win the pill was superb to watch :thumb

mmm April fools.....

But when you guys like Bakkies fall on the wrong side, make no movement out of the way and Eaton getting punished for encouraging him to get out of the way. Eaton being able to lean over him and pick the ball up seems the best option - if kicking the shit out him is not acceptable.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I thought the Maul has been revived, even under the ELVs. I like the new version of it, and think it opens up more try scoring opportunities, not less. One example is the Reds use of it against the Chiefs on the weekend.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Agreed Scotty - to execute a maul now you need to do it with strength, speed, and accuracy. Not just get 6-8 fat bastards together and gradually trudge upfield for minutes at a time. Once you form the maul the Laws of Physics are on your side...


fatprop said:
But when you guys like Bakkies fall on the wrong side, make no movement out of the way and Eaton getting punished for encouraging him to get out of the way. Eaton being able to lean over him and pick the ball up seems the best option - if kicking the shit out him is not acceptable.

:nta: That might lead to something interesting fp. Maybe players like Bakkies should be forced to wear fluro yellow headgear. Any player wearing such headgear is free game for being rucked... all openside flankers and annoying pricks like Bakkies will be subject to such Laws under the NTALVs.
 
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formeropenside

Guest
Part of what I'd like to see done to show up the current laws at rucking, is for the halfback to deliberately lose the ball - every ruck if necessary - by banging it into the opposition player who is on the wrong side of the ruck, has slowed the ball down, and is now holding his hands up.

Often as not, the halfback has to contort around this player - you cant tread on him, even innocently - so bobble and lose the ball on the guy, every time. Sooner or later the ref will have to whistle him off.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Actually, teams in the S14 have adapted to the maul rule and now we are seeing mauls re-enter the game. It's surprising, and mauls once again have become an effective weapon, but they are harder to do.

The PR link is an obvious April 1 wind up.

The tragic thing is that people like Thommo in the NH never saw a real comp with all the ELVs reffed in a decent way week in, week out. But yet, they feel fit to criticise them non-stop.

I'm not sure with some of the ELVs without others, but I am a bit fearful now of old rules returning. Their may be less kicking once the 22 rule goes, but I suspect that their will be less running too as the ball will be out of play longer. I suspect that the level of kicking has increased due to the ruck clampdowns of attacking players on their feet. When teams are on the halfway line and are putting up midfield bombs when they didn't used to - well, this has nothing to do with 22 rule.

I was a fan of the hands in the ruck rule when players are on their feet especially, but it had a huge responsibility on the ref to ensure players were supporting their own weight. This rule in particular guaranteed a real shit fight for the ball. It guaranteed defenders must commit and better rewarded counter rucking. Sad to see it never got trialled at a pro level.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Scotty said:
Law 19 ? Freedom for each team to determine Lineout Numbers

Could someone explain to me why they would not support this law change?

Exactly what I was wondering. As a player, it made plenty of sense to me and removed the ref from another part of the game.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Scotty said:
Law 19 ? Freedom for each team to determine Lineout Numbers

Could someone explain to me why they would not support this law change?

As it happens, I did; I reckoned with a proper maul, it could be a winner. I'd have kept that, and binned the 22 kicking one, as well as the stupid ones preventing the receivers coming into the lineout.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Thought I would post Steve Tew's thoughts on the meeting, given the NH often thinks of the ELVS as an Aus/O'Neil conspiracy.

"There is no chance that the sanctions will be agreed to at council in May," Tew said yesterday. "We had the 10 major unions in the room yesterday with the people who will make decisions before they go to council. The six nations simply don't agree with them."

Tew added that any future trialling of laws would have to be universal. "We had the ridiculous situation yesterday where the six nations were en masse rejecting law variations which they had not trialled," Tew said. "It's fair to say that raised a few eyebrows, given they were telling us why they didn't work. They were basing their arguments on assumptions rather than facts."


I am glad that rolling mauls are back as I disgareed with that ELV from the start, but am very unhappy with the process.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
It looks like it was all a complete waste of time. What a f*king joke. Some of the rugby adminstrators clearly have their heads way too far up their own arses.

Cue Thommo coming on to blame John O'Neill. Of course it is his fault. How could it possbily be the fault of any of the northern unions?
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
But what do you blokes think of the ELVs? I think the best one is the least likely to ever get used, which is hands in the ruck. I loved what did to the ARC - reintroduced a brutal fight for the ball, without the serious injuries associated with rucking.

As for the rest of them, I don't think they have cleared up anything. Particularly, the FK hasn't helped or hindered the clarity of the rules.

I don't really care one way or the other anymore. The NH blazers have their collective heads up their arses but we knew that anyway. The gap between the SH and NH doesn't look like closing any time soon.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Trialling the ELV's has improved our game across the park. our players are now fitter and more skillfull and it hasn't hindered our scrummaging at all. In fact Australia's has improved.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Scarfman, the only ELV I didn't really like was the pulling down the maul one, as I like mauls.

Nevertheless, I did read somewhere today that over 70% of mauls used to be pulled down anyway so the old rules were largely ineffective in any event. And I have noticed some clever rolling mauls in this years S14 so I could have lived with that ELV anyway.

Its also intersting that SA teams are No1 and 2 in the S14 this year, which is probably contrary to what most would have predicted under the ELVs.

I am a strong believer in the free kick ELV. It may need some tweaking but I fundamentally believe that minor indescretions should not lead to penalty goals and game changing outcomes. It was too easy to play for the penalty.

I am very dirty on the way the IRB has been played on the ELVs. In hindsight, huge amounts of money and time have been wasted.

Actually, there is an ELV I don't like, the one where the halfback can disrupt the no.8 at the back of the scrum as soon as he goes to touch the ball - that shits me as I think it takes away the benefit of a dominant scrum.
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
mark_s said:
Actually, there is an ELV I don't like, the one where the halfback can disrupt the no.8 at the back of the scrum as soon as he goes to touch the ball - that shits me as I think it takes away the benefit of a dominant scrum.

Is that an ELV? That shits me too, but then I hate halfbacks.
 
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