Ideas for NRC 2015

[Strewthcobber]

In any case the telegraph is saying today that Sydney will be brought down to 2 teams under the Waratahs just like in Queensland. That actually fixes everything.


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They are under the QRU in Queensland though aren't they?

Was it Tahs or NSWRU?

 

[TOCC]

In any case the telegraph is saying today that Sydney will be brought down to 2 teams under the Waratahs just like in Queensland. That actually fixes everything.


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Really, where was it, I unfortunately read that paper today and saw no mention of the NRC


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[Jagman]

"Speaking of the ABC, the 2015 version of the NRC may end up in a Hunger Games fight for survival for the four NSW franchises.

Further to our report about Fox Sports agreeing to televise a third-tier competition until 2020, there is speculation a new competition model could see NSW being cut back to two teams. The teams would potentially fall under the Waratahs roof, similar to the Super Rugby-based programs around the rest of the country."

http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/spor...t-forwards-coach/story-fni2fxyf-1227250199923


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[Omar Comin']

I don't think 2 teams is enough for NSW. The Country Eagles are a good concept and worth sticking with IMO, while Sydney needs at least 2 teams.

It's not as if all the NSW teams were terrible. It was only really the Stars that seemed consistently a step below. And the inner west is too small an area to focus a team in this competition.

 

[Scoey]

Did anything end up coming of the Challenge Shield (Shawn McKay Shield was it?) that was being discussed in depth on GaGR? I think it is an excellent idea and just the sort of thing they should look t getting off the ground this year.

@Pfitzy ? Do you know anything?

 

[AussieDominance]

I think it is actually stupid to not stick with the four NSW teams. If you look at the model the ARU are going off(BBL) you will see that the NSW teams are starting to really develop into powerhouses (Sixers have continued to be and Thunder are starting to get there) because NSW as the biggest state produce the most players (players actually want to spend that 8 weeks at home that haven't been able to gain a NSW contract).

The areas of Northern Sydney, Sydney Uni and the Greater Sydney Rams all individually produce more Super Rugby players by an absolute country mile than the WA, VIC and ACT based sides.

The Super Rugby Academy sides had such an advantage with choosing the 16 players that I find it hard to blame the NSW sides who didn't perform.

I think you will find in 3 or 4 seasons the NSW sides will be a lot more successful with players wanting to play those 8 weeks at home (from interstate franchises) and a few hardened players who have been through a few NRC campaigns.

At the commencement of last year's NRC Greater Sydney and North Harbour had $0 to start off with and as the franchise develops should be able to figure out ways to attract and retain players. Not only that but the ARU might find no better way to piss the greatest stronghold in the game in the North Harbour Rays off by closing that franchise. The 4 clubs bankrolled this club with $30k last season of which most of it was spent.

Do the ARU simply tell them thanks for putting that money in but we are fine now we don't need you?

 

[TOCC]

I think that's the unfortunate reality, that money invested in the NRC generates returns through player and coach development rather then returning a financial return..

Sydney teams will improve, and I don't think it's through moving players from the Force or Rebels. They just need a greater level of professionalism, which like you say will come through experience but also greater support from the Waratahs/NSWRU.

2 teams is to few, I think 3 NSW teams is ideal.


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[Jagman]

2 teams means the Waratahs academy (gen blue) could train all the players throughout the year, start the comp with more than a week's preparation, and use the comp like an extended trial/preseason for the following year (it's clear the Waratahs are underdone this season and perhaps it comes done to the fact they have no NRC input). It's good for the Waratahs, bad for the Shute clubs with aspirations of playing in a national comp. can't see how the Waratahs could manage 3 teams though so you end up with club manged NRC teams put together 1 week before the comp starts. 3 teams means exposure for more club players though. Pros and cons either way. Personally prefer what's best for the Waratahs.


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[boyo]

@Pfitzy ? Do you know anything?

One of the questions of life, the universe, and everything.

 

[kiap]

2 teams means the Waratahs academy (gen blue) could train all the players throughout the year, start the comp with more than a week's preparation, and use the comp like an extended trial/preseason for the following year (it's clear the Waratahs are underdone this season and perhaps it comes done to the fact they have no NRC input). It's good for the Waratahs, bad for the Shute clubs with aspirations of playing in a national comp. can't see how the Waratahs could manage 3 teams though so you end up with club manged NRC teams put together 1 week before the comp starts. 3 teams means exposure for more club players though. Pros and cons either way. Personally prefer what's best for the Waratahs.

Not sure how this will all play out but if the Waratahs did run two (Sydney) teams, perhaps the third team could still be NSW Country.

The Eagles did better than most sides in the NRC.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think that would probably be the best solution. Whether or not it would actually work out that way is another thing. If the Tahs were to become directly involved in two of the franchises it should be the Rays and the Rams.

 

[TOCC]

Waratahs should become directly involved in every team in the state regardless of whether there are 2, 3 or 4 teams. They could leverage their S&C staff, coaching staff, marketing staff, management staff etc...


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[Pass it to Dunning!]

I think the weakness in the NSW teams was down to how many Waratahs made it into the Wallabies last year. When it came down to it, only a handful of contracted Waratahs players were in the NRC, and they were spread pretty thin.

Let's not forget the Rams were only one point away from making the top four.

I think NSW will be fine with four teams.

 

[Jagman]

Not sure how this will all play out but if the Waratahs did run two (Sydney) teams, perhaps the third team could still be NSW Country.

The Eagles did better than most sides in the NRC.

Funnily enough the Eagles had a good contingent of professionals and academy players including two Force players, Delit and Stubbs and Brumbies Mann-Rea and and Vaea as well as Lahiff who never played.

To compare the Rams had Mafi and Alcock from the Force. The Stars got Weeks and the Rays got... Luke Holmes if he counts as a Fill in Brumby.

Apart from that they were left with the remnant of the Waratahs squad and the Eagles had an advantage here too because they could select players from non-aligned Shute teams who wanted to play for NSW country eg. Kane Douglas, mike alaa'alatoa, and Ryan Dalziel could have played for the Rams.


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[RugbyFuture]

at the same time this is being debated it would limit potential investment in rugby if they reduce the number of teams. A number of private parties (who would never have considered investing in super rugby) were considering bidding for new spots, knew of at least 3 as private entities and the idea of this competition is to start development, first couple of years was never going to see a huge amount of balance achieved but perhaps that is the loss we have to take for developing a legitimate competition that creates a solid base for Australian Rugby.

Summary: idea is to branch out, not limit people to the same models involved in pro rugby for the last 2 decades.

 

[TOCC]

Good point RugbyFuture and i do agree, i guess my only point for this is that in the initial years when the competition is establishing itself, leveraging existing resources by aligning the clubs to Super Rugby teams allows economies of scale and minimises operating costs.

For example, for the Greater Sydney Rams to run a team with the same support staff and facilities that teams like the Spirit and Rising had it would cost them another $250'000/annum, yet the Rising and Spirit were able to leverage their current staff and resources to do that for no additional expense.

Perhaps in the future(next 2 to 3 years) it would be in the best interest of the competition for the QRU, Rebels, Force to look to offload the NRC teams to private investors or other parties if the demand warrants. Brumbies did this partially through the Vikings partnership, there might be similar opportunities for other teams in the future.

 

[Jagman]

Adelaide submitted an initial bid. The idea might be to reduce NSW and direct all excess pros from Canberra, Perth and Melbourne to an Adelaide NRC team.


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[WorkingClassRugger]

at the same time this is being debated it would limit potential investment in rugby if they reduce the number of teams. A number of private parties (who would never have considered investing in super rugby) were considering bidding for new spots, knew of at least 3 as private entities and the idea of this competition is to start development, first couple of years was never going to see a huge amount of balance achieved but perhaps that is the loss we have to take for developing a legitimate competition that creates a solid base for Australian Rugby.

Summary: idea is to branch out, not limit people to the same models involved in pro rugby for the last 2 decades.

So you're saying that there are/were three other entities looking to invest in existing teams or create new franchises? Would be interesting to find out who they were.

 

[TOCC]

Adelaide submitted an initial bid. The idea might be to reduce NSW and direct all excess pros from Canberra, Perth and Melbourne to an Adelaide NRC team.


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I like their initiative but i really question the finances of this bid, given many of the teams were filled with semi-professional players who had jobs through the week what was the solution for this? Transplanting 32 players to Adelaide for the duration of the tournament would have required an increase in minimum wage for many of the players to cover their jobs, food and accommodation costs and additional flight expenses.

Not to mention the addition costs of flying to Adelaide as opposed to flying to Sydney.. 8 of the 9 teams were based in the Melbourne - Brisbane corridor, you throw Adelaide into the mix and theres an increase in transport costs for the tournament.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I like their initiative but i really question the finances of this bid, given many of the teams were filled with semi-professional players who had jobs through the week what was the solution for this? Transplanting 32 players to Adelaide for the duration of the tournament would have required an increase in minimum wage for many of the players to cover their jobs, food and accommodation costs and additional flight expenses.

Not to mention the addition costs of flying to Adelaide as opposed to flying to Sydney.. 8 of the 9 teams were based in the Melbourne - Brisbane corridor, you throw Adelaide into the mix and theres an increase in transport costs for the tournament.

Any Adelaide team would require deep pockets. Very deep pockets.