How to respond to the haka

[Hell West & Crooked]

right.... ermm - well said.. wtf?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Consulted wikipedia on this most pressing of matters, looks to be fairly clear-cut.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haka#History

 

[badabing59]

Maybe its time to view the Haka in the "Spirit" in which it is offered - I know of no other "Cultural Exchange" which is inflicted on a - in this case Host - according to the maxim; - We get our way completely, and you appreciate it, - or we will throw our toys out of the Crib.

This from 2006:

No WRU apology over haka dispute

The All Blacks performed in the dressing room

The haka in pictures
The Welsh Rugby Union has refused to apologise over a row that saw New Zealand performing their haka in the Millennium Stadium changing rooms.
The haka - a ceremonial war dance - is traditionally performed by New Zealand directly before kick off in matches.
But it was held in private on Saturday in protest at Wales' plan to "respond" with their own national anthem.

WRU group chief executive Roger Lewis said the issue should have been sorted out long before the match.

I don't think anyone comes out well in this - both sides regret what happened on Saturday

Roger Lewis, WRU
But Wales' wish to follow the haka with their anthem before Saturday's match saw New Zealand refuse to stage the haka on the field.

Mr Lewis told the BBC the WRU had informed their New Zealand counterparts of their plans to respond to the haka several weeks ago.

He said: "The match protocol outlining the order of events had been set by the Welsh Rugby Union to the New Zealand Rugby Union on 16 October.

New Zealand have staged the haka for more than 100 years
"However, the WRU were only officially informed by New Zealand on the morning of the match that the haka was not going to be performed.
"This kind of brinkmanship is not good for rugby, it's not fair on the fans."

Mr Lewis added that the WRU would write to world rugby's governing body, the IRB, to "suggest that a worldwide protocol for the haka is agreed to by all".
Former Wales captain Paul Thorburn told BBC Wales he believed the WRU decision had set a precedent for next year's World Cup and that other teams will also insist on their national anthems being played after the haka as a response.

He said if the All Blacks maintain their stance it could result in the haka never being performed in public again"

So there it is - The EASY Solution.

Is that you Stephen Jones?

 

[Pfitzy]

I'm cool with whatever they want to do - its more than just guys who are Maori after all.

Provided there is international law enacted such that the biggest, whitest dickhead on the side is NEVER allowed to stand in the front line.

They can call it The Ali Williams Ruling.

 

[Dan54]

Hell, I not maori, but it is still part of my culture! Most NZ secondary shools have their own haka etc. Still like I said if it worries anyone I cool with just them just saying, don't do it, which is what Mr Lewis from WRU is quite entitled to do. The only time the IRB says it is allowed is at WC, same as Samoas,Tonga's and Fiji's, otherwise any country can can it if it a; scares their players, b; feel it reason ABs win ot c; their fans don't want it!
I would imagine any country can do same with Anthems, which after all was only first done at a test match in response to the haka at Cardiff Arms park way back when!
Pretty sure there is no rule saying anyone has to allow anything.
I be happy if ABs just said they would only do it to teams they truly respect, wonder if there would be a shit fight from teams they didn't do it for!

 

[Dan54]

OK I bored, lol ITM has finished otherwise I wouldn't even bother repling on the thread!!

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Provided there is international law enacted such that the biggest, whitest dickhead on the side is NEVER allowed to stand in the front line.

They can call it The Ali Williams Ruling.

_______________________

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

They can do whatever they like at home but it's a load of shit that Unions let them do it at away games. The ARU should be looking to get every advantage it can, make them do it in the sheds or just ignore them and practice goal kicking ffs. Anything to get in their heads

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

They can do whatever they like at home but it's a load of shit that Unions let them do it at away games. The ARU should be looking to get every advantage it can, make them do it in the sheds or just ignore them and practice goal kicking ffs. Anything to get in their heads

I heartily agree - Smith and Eales back in '96 had the right idea - just ignore it - Eales now rates it as a mistake, and I will defer to him on most counts Rugby Orientated - but I think the real mistake is all our Responses are 'one-off' and never get a chance to breathe...

Retreat down our half and do some warm-ups until the Kiwis decided they have finished farnarkling about - do it every game for 2 years, and we might finally see the end of the nonsense (at least overseas)....

 

[Ulrich]

You can ignore it or you can embrace it. It's a mindset really.

If you allow it to make you feel inferior because you believe it gives the All Blacks an advantage you have already lost in any case.

On the other hand, if you allow it to spur you on, we wouldn't need threads like these. The benefit would be to both teams, and which team in the world doesn't want to perform above themselves?

By the way, did anyone bother to read the last paragraphs in Dismall Pillock's excerpt on the Haka from Wikipedia?

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Frankly, I find that all a bit odd - mixed-in with some fairly dubious psycho-babble...

Why on God's Green Earth would it make you 'feel inferior'???...

Also - Why should you need it to 'spur you on'? What would Spur me On - if I needed any such motivation having earned a Wallaby Jersey - would be getting on with the Rugby!

Two teams turn up at a Rugby Ground to play Rugby; One teams says Hang on, before we start, we have to be allowed to do our little 'War Dance' - and you have to stand there, and you are not allowed to react - if you do react, we are going to complain like bitches about your 'lack of cultural respect'...

After we have done our little dance, and you have been forced to stand there, looking awkward and 'showing respect' (or some such crap) then, we will play Rugby...

Fck off!... I would dearly love to see the Wallabies (and anyone else so inclined) just walk away and warm-up, Every. Single. Time.

If it Has to be endured as a cost of playing in NZ then fair enough - but keep it at home, get on with the Rugby. On the other hand, if Samoa and Tonga want to swap Hakas with the ABs before Test Matches, that is also their right to do so...

 

[Ulrich]

Frankly, I find that all a bit odd - mixed-in with some fairly dubious psycho-babble.

Why on God's Green Earth would it make you 'feel inferior'???.

Also - Why should you need it to 'spur you on'? What would Spur me On - if I needed any such motivation having earned a Wallaby Jersey - would be getting on with the Rugby!

Two teams turn up at a Rugby Ground to play Rugby; One teams says Hang on, before we start, we have to be allowed to do our little 'War Dance' - and you have to stand there, and you are not allowed to react - if you do react, we are going to complain like bitches about your 'lack of cultural respect'.

After we have done our little dance, and you have been forced to stand there, looking awkward and 'showing respect' (or some such crap) then, we will play Rugby.

Fck off!. I would dearly love to see the Wallabies (and anyone else so inclined) just walk away and warm-up, Every. Single. Time.

If it Has to be endured as a cost of playing in NZ then fair enough - but keep it at home, get on with the Rugby. On the other hand, if Samoa and Tonga want to swap Hakas with the ABs before Test Matches, that is also their right to do so.

Never did I say anyone needs to be spurred on. The mere idea that it bothers people THAT much is what is strange to me. The spurring on is in reference to thee fact that it is awesome to be playing the best team in the world. They are performing something that many believe to spur them on and if looked at it with the right mindset it can spur the opposition on as well. If looked at differently it can mean nothing to you or in your case it may simply bother you enough to rant about it.

If there are enough people that feel like you then it will happen. Teams will oppose it regardless of what the IRB say and regardless of the fines they receive. The IRB can't fine all teams if all the teams were to "disrespect" the Haka by warming up, dancing, or just looking bored consistently. They'd kill their own game.

My guess is that the people playing the game don't feel this way or at least that enough don't feel this way.

Should the UNION of any nation or the people of any nation dislike it enough to oppose it on their grounds then the people can change that I guess - enough petitioning will make a change I'm sure.

In the meantime I can't see the issue with the haka, regardless of whether it's performed in Kuala Lumpur, Auckland or Johannesburg. It's 2-3 minutes of a thing that clearly means enough to the opposition for them to want to perform it. They spend time learning about it and learning the drills of various hakas throughout their rugby time. It's far better than having stoppages in the game for advertisements as an example. If you had an issue with that, then I'd agree.

The best I can think of is that you feel another nation's culture is being forced upon you or that you are forced to like it (which no one is). I'm sure if enough people feel the way you do things will change.

Until then, it's just a really awesome game that we love and it's just the All Blacks being the All Blacks.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

one can only hope...

 

[Ulrich]

one can only hope.

Anyway, no disrespect to you or your opinion.

 

[Joe King]

I like the Haka as a rugby tradition.

No other country has faced the Haka more than the Wallabies. And I like us having our own little things we do. Doesn't have to be too overt.

I've liked the Wallabies formation recently - standing bunched as a group. I can see that evolving/developing a bit more. And I've liked the taking off the tracksuits after the Haka routine (did they use to do that a bit more under Macqueen?).

Just the little subtle things that say with quiet confidence 'we are not intimidated; we will not be moved'

But don't like the smirking I've seen by players in the past. Don't think that helps anything. Would rather the Wallabies be even more 'pokerfaced'

 

[Tex]

As the hypothetical captain of the Wallabies this would be my response.

Starting 15 stand with their toes over the IRB's sacred line and unflinchingly accept the song and dance.

When they've finished, the team would stand there for a moment and soak it in, while the captain breaks ranks and takes a few steps towards the ABs, stoops and picks a handful of grass and blows it out of his hand while giving them a greasy.

Ie. I'm not intimidated, and by the way, fuck you.

Then we go and take off our tracksuits while the ABs team management gets on the phone and starts complaining about the haka not getting the respect it deserves.

Advantage, Aus.

Or something along those lines.

 

[Slim 293]

Let's not forget that all of the PI nations have their own 'war cry' that they perform before a match............

The only reason why the haka is singled out by a minority is due to the success of the All Blacks.

I've never understood the complaints.

It's a long standing tradition that's performed across all sports, although obviously hold far greater focus in rugby due to its importance in NZ.

We obviously face it more due to the frequency in which we play the AB's, but it's a spectacle I've always enjoyed watching and a challenge that players worldwide are honoured to receive.

 

[Slim 293]

It's also silly this entitlement complex that some nations develop thinking they need to create their own response to it............

Your response is to go out on the field and beat them.

I don't know what the hell Wales were thinking wanting to have their anthem played afterwards?

I was so happy when we finally rubbed out that cringeworthy Waltzing Matilda singalong that seemed to go on forever, and had absolutely no relevance to the players on the ground.

 

[Braveheart81]

This seems to be a psychological issue for fans more than anything else.

I think the tactic of keeping tracksuits on so there is a couple of minutes pause between the haka finishing and the match starting is the best way to go about it.

It's not dramatic. It's not controversial. It's not disrespectful.

It just gives your side a brief period to focus and compose themselves and ensures that any extra adrenaline the All Blacks might have from just finishing their haka will have dissipated.

 

[Slim 293]

This seems to be a psychological issue for fans more than anything else.

Yep, and I don't think it actually has anything to do with the haka itself, but spitefulness developed from the continued on-field success of the All Blacks.............