Hooper stats looking good

[Train Without a Station]

Pocock is without doubt one of the best players in the world. This is a proven fact.

Where is that fact proven? Pocock is a model in work ethic, if every player in the Wallabies had his work ethic, we would be light years ahead of the All Blacks even. In addition, he is one of the best openside flankers in the world. However that is all that he is. David is a reasonably limited footballer, who cannot in rugby skill be compared to the likes of McCaw and George Smith who have multiple facets to his game. Anybody who dares to say he has been close to taking McCaw's spot as the best 7 in the world is kidding themselves. Better scavenger? Debatable. Better player? Never.

For all the people who have said Pocock was the heir to Smith's throne, you are delusional. He was the heir to Waugh's thrown, the hardworking, inspirational leader. Who even tried to say that Pocock had the better skillset than Hooper? I don't think i've ever seen the guy even pass the ball. He certainly doesn't offload in the tackle, not particularly quick and doesn't run great attacking lines. He however is the epitome of graft and depending on the 7 forwards around him, is often exactly the player needed amongst them. In addition to that, he also appears to be one of the best leaders in the national set up.

 

[Antony]

Where is that fact proven? Pocock is a model in work ethic, if every player in the Wallabies had his work ethic, we would be light years ahead of the All Blacks even. In addition, he is one of the best openside flankers in the world. However that is all that he is. David is a reasonably limited footballer, who cannot in rugby skill be compared to the likes of McCaw and George Smith who have multiple facets to his game. Anybody who dares to say he has been close to taking McCaw's spot as the best 7 in the world is kidding themselves. Better scavenger? Debatable. Better player? Never.

You're right, but you're really just debating definitions of best here. Pocock may not have all the skills in the world, but he can win big ticket test matches almost by himself (boks QF), which qualifies him at least for some kind of 'best' list.

Liam Messam has all the skills in the game, but David Pocock is a better player than him, if you define 'better' as meaning 'more likely to win you a rugby game', which seems logical. Or as a less on-point example, Jonah Lomu was one of the best players in the world, but could do roughly nothing besides steamroll guys.

If I were Deans/McKenzie I'd getting pretty creative with positional switches to accommodate Hooper, because there's no way I'd be dropping Pocock.

 

[Dave Beat]

Where is that fact proven? Pocock is a model in work ethic, if every player in the Wallabies had his work ethic, we would be light years ahead of the All Blacks even. In addition, he is one of the best openside flankers in the world. However that is all that he is. David is a reasonably limited footballer, who cannot in rugby skill be compared to the likes of McCaw and George Smith who have multiple facets to his game. Anybody who dares to say he has been close to taking McCaw's spot as the best 7 in the world is kidding themselves. Better scavenger? Debatable. Better player? Never.

For all the people who have said Pocock was the heir to Smith's throne, you are delusional. He was the heir to Waugh's thrown, the hardworking, inspirational leader. Who even tried to say that Pocock had the better skillset than Hooper? I don't think i've ever seen the guy even pass the ball. He certainly doesn't offload in the tackle, not particularly quick and doesn't run great attacking lines. He however is the epitome of graft and depending on the 7 forwards around him, is often exactly the player needed amongst them. In addition to that, he also appears to be one of the best leaders in the national set up.

Very well summed up, may i thoughts, (in my opinion);
George Smith had more jaw dropping briliance, more frequently than all others mentioned including McCaw.
McCaw may, "stress" may have a better wholistic game, but is that created by the team he is in.
I go Smith.
Hooper reminds me of Smith at the start of his career.

 

[brumsfan]

Just got sent a clip of Hoopers run against Argentina so have put on YouTube for anyone interested. Search Michael hooper run. Rugby stats listed hooper for 22 metres total in this game, I think ill stop quoting stats from them if that is how inaccurate they are.

 

[Braveheart81]

He ran from inside the 22 to inside the 22. Therefore zero metres.

 

[tranquility]

Where is that fact proven? Pocock is a model in work ethic, if every player in the Wallabies had his work ethic, we would be light years ahead of the All Blacks even. In addition, he is one of the best openside flankers in the world. However that is all that he is. David is a reasonably limited footballer, who cannot in rugby skill be compared to the likes of McCaw and George Smith who have multiple facets to his game. Anybody who dares to say he has been close to taking McCaw's spot as the best 7 in the world is kidding themselves. Better scavenger? Debatable. Better player? Never.

For all the people who have said Pocock was the heir to Smith's throne, you are delusional. He was the heir to Waugh's thrown, the hardworking, inspirational leader. Who even tried to say that Pocock had the better skillset than Hooper? I don't think i've ever seen the guy even pass the ball. He certainly doesn't offload in the tackle, not particularly quick and doesn't run great attacking lines. He however is the epitome of graft and depending on the 7 forwards around him, is often exactly the player needed amongst them. In addition to that, he also appears to be one of the best leaders in the national set up.

No.

David actually has quite adept ball skills, and when John Mitchell was at the Force he used them effectively by using Dave to link the Forwards and the backs off Line-out ball and such. His running game is fairly unintuitive, that's true. He is also not the footballer that McCaw or even Gill or Hooper is. However he is proably the most accurate defender in the world. Is an incredible pilferer, and is very, very good at defending and cleaning up our defensive rucks. McCaw is not only a smarter player, but he is a better athlete. It will be very interesting how David advances at the Brumbies next year with Laurie and Jake. I think it is safe to say that his game hasn't been aided or advanced by the Force setup over the last couple of years.

World class coaching + Pocock's work ethics = Tantalizing.

 

[Gagger]

As we all know a back rowers job contains a wide range of skills and tasks and often stats don't tell the whole story, but I just had a quick look at all the Rugby Championships back rowers for run metres and tackles over the last 4 games.
For reference only Alberts-McCaw-Read-Dennis-Hooper-Cabello-Lobbe played in the 4 games compared.
Top Running metres - Michael Hooper 32runs/203metres- Richie McCaw 35runs/182metres- Read 26runs/179metres
Most Tackles - Michael Hooper 58- Richie McCaw 49- Alberts 40

Top SA running metres Alberts 27runs/119metres
Top Arg running metres Lobbe 20runs/66metres

Anyone know where these stats came from?

 

[Viking]

Where is that fact proven? Pocock is a model in work ethic, if every player in the Wallabies had his work ethic, we would be light years ahead of the All Blacks even. In addition, he is one of the best openside flankers in the world. However that is all that he is. David is a reasonably limited footballer, who cannot in rugby skill be compared to the likes of McCaw and George Smith who have multiple facets to his game. Anybody who dares to say he has been close to taking McCaw's spot as the best 7 in the world is kidding themselves. Better scavenger? Debatable. Better player? Never.

For all the people who have said Pocock was the heir to Smith's throne, you are delusional. He was the heir to Waugh's thrown, the hardworking, inspirational leader. Who even tried to say that Pocock had the better skillset than Hooper? I don't think i've ever seen the guy even pass the ball. He certainly doesn't offload in the tackle, not particularly quick and doesn't run great attacking lines. He however is the epitome of graft and depending on the 7 forwards around him, is often exactly the player needed amongst them. In addition to that, he also appears to be one of the best leaders in the national set up.

It is proven by his effectiveness on every test he plays. There is countless amount of times he has made a crucial turn-over. He would not look out of place in a world XV, which makes him one of the best players in the world (i did not say he was THE best).

I also did not say he was the most skilled, or most balanced, but he is proven to be one of the most effective and productive - which means even with his "limited" skills he usually has more of an impact on a game then those players who are more well-rounded. I believe he has more impact on a game then Hooper - who is also limited. Hooper is a great ball-runner and a great workhorse, not a great fetcher or a game changer like Pocock.

In regards to McCaw and Smith, I would agree they are better players. But at this present time there is no doubt Pocock is still a world-class player. Refer to his debut Test against Wales, his test against SA in the RWC, actually find me a Test where he played badly, that is probably harder then counting all his great Tests.

 

[brumsfan]

Because hooper is clearly the better runner people are choosing to forget that he was top 3 pilferer in super rugby also 2nd in these championships.
The stats below now appear on the tahs site for his game against NZ, but it suggests his stats were twice those of an average test open side for this game.

A former Manly player and born in Sydney, Michael Hooper has had an outstanding season for the Brumbies and is still only 20. Alongside our current club captain Pat McCutcheon, who is currently returning from the horrific ankle injury he suffered in the opening weeks of last season, Hoops gives crucial depth in a key position. Against New Zealand last weekend, and up against Richie McCaw for the first time, Hoops had 100 involvements. In total, he made five runs, breaking three tackles; he made 31 clean outs, forced two turnovers at the ruck and made 26 tackles - that’s double the average of an international 7 in Test matches! His tackle success rate was up around 90% and his dominant tackle percentage was 57.

 

[Dave Beat]

A former Manly player and born in Sydney,

What you talking about always a Manly player (as was George Smith) - now both former Brumbies player.

He's had a great season this year.

 

[Viking]

Because hooper is clearly the better runner people are choosing to forget that he was top 3 pilferer in super rugby also 2nd in these championships.

I don't re-call any pilferers at test level. he doesn't have to same strength over the ball that poey does. Test players are stronger than super XV players, and his effectiveness in regards to turnovers is dramatically reduced especially against the likes of the Boks and ABs. However with Poey's exception strength over the ball he still manages to consistently turn-over the ball. That is why i prefer Poey over Hooper (at least against the ABs n Boks).

Amazing stats by Hooper though, and only going to get better.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't re-call any pilferers at test level. he doesn't have to same strength over the ball that poey does. Test players are stronger than super XV players, and his effectiveness in regards to turnovers is dramatically reduced especially against the likes of the Boks and ABs. However with Poey's exception strength over the ball he still manages to consistently turn-over the ball. That is why i prefer Poey over Hooper (at least against the ABs n Boks).

Amazing stats by Hooper though, and only going to get better.

Weren't we discussing after the first test, Pocock's inability to take a single pilfer? Considering Hooper took more Super Rugby pilfers than Pocock in I believe as many games, if you want to say Pocock is a better pilferer at test level, he needs to be jagging a few every game to back this up as a reason to pick him.

 

[Viking]

Weren't we discussing after the first test, Pocock's inability to take a single pilfer? Considering Hooper took more Super Rugby pilfers than Pocock in I believe as many games, if you want to say Pocock is a better pilferer at test level, he needs to be jagging a few every game to back this up as a reason to pick him.

I thought he was jagging a few almost every game. Some games obviously more then others, and on his off-day he gets none, but lets face it pilfering is a bloody hard skill and Pocock is frequently targeted at the breakdown, but even on his off-day his work-rate and tackling ability always remains high. I definitely think he is a better pilferer. Hooper is better ball-runner, both have exceptional work-rates.

 

[The Red Baron]

I think rather than actual pilfering, it is the ability to be an absolute pest at the breakdown. Hooper is good at it, but Pocock is a right pest at the breakdown. That is why he is so heavily targeted now. Given time, Hooper will be targeted in much the same way.

How both players adapt to being constantly targeted at the breakdown is the interesting part. An area where Richie McCaw has certainly excelled at. The reason he has stayed so good for so long is because he is ahead of the curve. He finds new ways to make a nuisance of himself just when oppositions think they have him worked out.

 

[Braveheart81]

If only we could work out a way so it makes sense to have both on the field at the same time.

Hooper is young. Maybe he can take a year off, load up on human growth hormone and return as a number 6?

 

[Dumbledore]

If only we could work out a way so it makes sense to have both on the field at the same time.

Hooper is young. Maybe he can take a year off, load up on human growth hormone and return as a number 6?

Play him as an ultra-mobile 8 in the So'oialo mould? Would need a big number 6 who can play tight and provide a viable lineout target though.

 

[The Red Baron]

Interesting prospect there BH. If he is taking a year off, maybe we should break his legs in the hope that he will get taller.. every little bit helps!

 

[Braveheart81]

So'oialo has close to 10cm on both of them and 5-10kg.

They'd both be midgets at number 8.

 

[Braveheart81]

Interesting prospect there BH. If he is taking a year off, maybe we should break his legs in the hope that he will get taller.. every little bit helps!

Sending him to Eastern Europe for leg lengthening surgery was my other option but I decided to try for the (somewhat more) natural route of human growth hormone.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

So'oialo has close to 10cm on both of them and 5-10kg.

They'd both be midgets at number 8.

And that's the principal issue I have with playing them both at the same time. It's so tempting, because they are both terrific players, but we would give up too much size and a lineout option to go with it.