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Honkers - a review

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Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Someone needs to remind the Wallabies that there are two halves in a match of rugby. Yet again they came out playing the better attacking rugby, scoring two tries to nil in the first 40, to then look and play like walking zombies for the rest of the game.

The recipe for success in the first half was to play the game in the ABs half through kick chase defensive pressure, and then to spread it wide with quick ball. When doing this the Wallabies looked almost irresistible and there could have been another two tries. The passing, looping runs and clearance at the ruck were all first rate. Dare I say it, there was even counter-rucking.

Had the penalty count not been 7-1 to New Zealand after 30 minutes - continuously releasing pressure at just the wrong times - the ABs could have been out for the count (more on this later).

But it felt like we'd been here before though only a few weeks ago in Brisbane. Within two minutes of the restart another defensive cock up, this time by AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) marking the same inside man that Cross had, and Sivivatu was in. The wobbles had started. Suddenly the shape was gone - no kick chasers and no men running from deep.

This was the time when big runners like Elsom, Horwill and Palu should have been punching holes, but there was no-one to take their place. It was also the time when a positional kicking game was required. Instead AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Giteau began kicking balls long and out on the full. To summarise - the Wallabies scored zero points in the second half.

A lot has already been written about the Referee Alan Lewis' impact on the match. At the breakdown he was consistent, in that he obviously thinks the defense has no right to contest the ball. Somehow an All Black lying on the ground holding the ball is a ruck and all we heard throughout the game was "let go gold, ruck formed" at precisely the point the Wallabies would have earned a turn over in any test of the season so far. With 3 fetchers in the squad it's no surprise what a disadvantage this was to Australia.

What wasn't consistent though was his view at scrum time. It's no doubt that our scrum has rightly been a source of national embarrassment, but while that's fair game for the Al Baxter hate club (otherwise known as those one-eyed fuckwits in the NZ Sky Sports box) it's not OK for refs.

From the first collapse on the dodgy Honkers surface it was clear who Lewis was gonna nail this to, along with "Nisbo" and that lazy deadbeat John Drake. But the more you watched it, the more you realised that all bar a couple of instances, on their own feed the Wallaby scrum not only held its own, but was even dominant. So who was it who couldn't handle the pressure on the NZ feed?

A perfect example came at a crucial point in the match on the 44th minute. Earning a rare penalty in the ABs 22, the Wallabies caused snorts of derision and disbelief in the Sky commentary box by opting for the scrum, which they went on to clearly dominate (momentary silence from strangled Skysports vowels).

The ensuing screwed backline move gave the ABs a scrum feed at which Tialata so obviously dropped the scrum that even 'Drakey' admutted it. Too late, Lewis had already decided who he was going to ping before the scrum was even set and Robinson takes the wrap. Poor, lazy refereeing.

The unfortunate reality is that this attitude will follow this Wallaby front row around Europe this year (Lewis is reffing the Welsh match for example) and ultimately it was Baxter and Dunning who earned it in the first place.

And the Wallabies definitely weren't blameless today either. There were some dumb offsides, holding ons and early engagements that probably made up half of the penalty count. And I still can't figure out why the notoriously fragile AB line-out went almost totally uncontested.

In the end, this Honkers dead rubber demonstrated another few important steps forward for Australia under Deans, but coming a valiant second to the All Blacks is wearing very thin.


NEW ZEALAND 19 (Richard McCaw, Sitiveni Sivivatu tries Daniel Carter 3 pens) bt AUSTRALIA 14 (Drew Mitchell 2 tries Matt Giteau 2 cons) at Hong Kong Stadium. Referee: Alan Lewis (IRE).
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
A perfect example came at a crucial point in the match on the 44th minute. Earning a rare penalty in the ABs 22, the Wallabies caused snorts of derision and disbelief in the Sky commentary box by opting for the scrum, which they went on to clearly dominate (momentary silence from strangled Skysports vowels).

If Giteau had found the correct ball runner with the set play off that scrum Hynes was in under the sticks.

In the end, this Honkers dead rubber demonstrated another few important steps forward for Australia under Deans, but coming a valiant second to the All Blacks is wearing very thin.

Your spot on there. The old "we're getting there" or "we've seen some big improvements tonight" is more than a bit old it's about 3 years old. Ever since Eddie Jones got sacked that's all I've heard about the Wallabies.
 
F

formeropenside

Guest
After watching the HK game, I'm concerned that the Wallabies problems are in their heads: in short, they dont think about the game at a smart enough level.

They dont work the ref: they insist on "fair" treatment and playing to the rulebook, when the AB's work out what the ref is hard and soft on and play accordingly.

They dont think strategically: Giteau's kick out from a carried back pass, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s clearing kick at the end allowing the AB's to run out the clock, taking the scrum rather than the lineout from the McCaw penalty (yes the scrum worked, but I still think a lineout was a better option), failing to attack the AB lineout at all.

You can win most games without that last 5% that the mental edge gives you, but not against the AB's. Simply put, they dont play smart.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
good read I reckon FOS.

A team gets used to losing the tight ones (like we used to be used to winning the tight ones).

Do you reckon its a leadership issue? I used to think Morty was a very good leader. I think he can be inspirational, but don't know if its enough? In saying that, don't know who could turn that around? Jimmy? Matt? George?
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
To an extent I agree, former, but some of the penalties on the weekend no-one could have forseen. That ref had it in for us, and a official review of his performance should be undertaken immediately.

Moore had clearly rolled away from the ball, yet was penalised for lying on it.

Tialata had clearly dropped the scrum, yet the ref penalises Robinson despite being on the other side of the scrum.

Not sure what the wallabies could have done any different in these, and many other instances.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Seems to be basically a reversal of things 6 or 7 years back. When the AB's would outplay you guys for long periods of a game only to lose it in the final few mins or so. Heart breaking for sure.

Just our turn now :)
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Virgil said:
Seems to be basically a reversal of things 6 or 7 years back. When the AB's would outplay you guys for long periods of a game only to lose it in the final few mins or so. Heart breaking for sure.

Just our turn now :)
Too right, Virg. I watched a program on Fox prior to the match on 6 fairly recent Aus / NZ tests that we actually won - 2 from '98, 1 from 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004 (you may have elected to not see this package! ;D). The last 4 were all bloody close and we nicked 'em at the death. Haven't seen too much of that lately. It's a great knack to have. Enjoy it while it lasts.
By the way, do you realise you're about to become a Wallaby?
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
cyclopath said:
Virgil said:
Seems to be basically a reversal of things 6 or 7 years back. When the AB's would outplay you guys for long periods of a game only to lose it in the final few mins or so. Heart breaking for sure.

Just our turn now :)
Too right, Virg. I watched a program on Fox prior to the match on 6 fairly recent Aus / NZ tests that we actually won - 2 from '98, 1 from 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2004 (you may have elected to not see this package! ;D). The last 4 were all bloody close and we nicked 'em at the death. Haven't seen too much of that lately. It's a great knack to have. Enjoy it while it lasts.
By the way, do you realise you're about to become a Wallaby?

Say what now?
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Scotty said:
To an extent I agree, former, but some of the penalties on the weekend no-one could have forseen. That ref had it in for us, and a official review of his performance should be undertaken immediately.

Moore had clearly rolled away from the ball, yet was penalised for lying on it.

Tialata had clearly dropped the scrum, yet the ref penalises Robinson despite being on the other side of the scrum.

Not sure what the wallabies could have done any different in these, and many other instances.

It is going to take years for refs to stop thinking that Aus's scrum is always the problem.
 

disco

Chilla Wilson (44)
It is going to take years for refs to stop thinking that Aus's scrum is always the problem.

I reckon half the time they don't know what's happened & feel they have to make a decision & it's just easier to ping the aussies because of what happened in 2005.

I feel the last two games against Nz that our 3 biggest problems have been playing the full 80 minutes, the bench & the ref carving us up.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
fatprop said:
It is going to take years for refs to stop thinking that Aus's scrum is always the problem.

Regardless of performance it's gonna take Baxter and Dunning getting the arse. Perceptions everything.
 

Major Spliff Biggins

Fred Wood (13)
What is really getting to me though, aside from the officiating at the scrum, is the review of the breakdown.

Why are we getting penalised merciless for counter rucking? We have lost so many games in recent years due to not turning up at the breakdown and not showing enough aggression. Now we are doing so and being penalised for it. We cannot win.

There is always a bit of give and take when it comes to the bloke with the whistle and penalties do have a way of evening themselves out. But fuck me, how many dodgy decisions have been made this year leading to AB tries? From AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) being ruled as carrying the ball out when it should have a Gold line out, to forward passes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) on his feet tearing the ball out of Weepu's hand and Walsh ignoring the holding on in Brisbane. There have been some very big decisions gone against us.

I'm not in a position to say "we was robbed" and blame the ref for all of our shortcomings. We have so many things to work on; but there needs to be a drastic review of officiating, otherwise we will never win these matches.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
When we are good enough, it wont matter what the ref does. Dominant teams get the rub of the green. We arent that far off.
 

the gambler

Dave Cowper (27)
Thought Id just drop a quick line to share my experience of the Honkers experiment.

Having been to the sevens in Honkers twice before I had high hopes for the whole experiment being a fun one and I wasnt disappointed.

While it lacked the whole international flavour of the sevens and the actual game itself was a slight disappointment I think most people that were there enjoyed the experience.

There were alot of rugby people walking around town on Thursday and Friday and even more filling up the bars into the early hours of the morning. On talking to some of them it seemed like a large number had come from the Asian region as I met people living in Korea, Singapore, Tokyo and Indonesia not to mention plenty of ex pats based in Hong Kong who were loving having the Wallabies come to town. I spent Friday morning walking around with a couple of the players and it was funny to watch all the little asian men and women gawp at the size of the players. The gawping was reciprocated when the squad members not in the 22 were out on friday night gawping at the locals running around in their halloween gear. It has to be said Hong Kong really puts on an amazing show for Halloween and based on the looks of the guys faces seeing the nurses, french maids and schoolgirls running around I think a few might be heading to Europe with the Fever.

The atmosphere on the Saturday was not that different from any other test match I have been to although perhaps slightly more relaxed. I would have said the crowd was 60-40 gold to black and while the game was a sell out there were quite a few spare seats due to a lot of corporates not using their seats.

After the game the post match festivies kicked off and there was a pretty good atmosphere in LKF and Wan Chai with Kiwis and Aussies actually getting on fairly well. Unlike walking around Marseille where Poms were abusing any Aussie in sight the kiwis were good natured and while all us Aussies had a whinge about the ref everyone i saw/met was just having a good time.

From all reports and I ended up speaking to ARU board members, ANZ executives (chief sponsors), Hong Kong rugby people, Aussie players and of course general fans from both countries it was a big success and everyone loved the experience. Whether there is a future to playing games in neutral venues I dont know, but certainly in this instance it seemed to work ok. Yes its a bit of a gimmick and its not traditional rugby as we know it but if the money made can be spent on improving the game in Australia then I think its worth it.

Now I'm getting ready to head off to Padova on Friday to continue my tour as a wallaby groupie.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
the gambler said:
From all reports and I ended up speaking to ARU board members, ANZ executives (chief sponsors), Hong Kong rugby people, Aussie players and of course general fans from both countries it was a big success and everyone loved the experience. Whether there is a future to playing games in neutral venues I dont know, but certainly in this instance it seemed to work ok. Yes its a bit of a gimmick and its not traditional rugby as we know it but if the money made can be spent on improving the game in Australia then I think its worth it.

I have no doubt in the world that there is a future for neutral venues. I think Brisbane fans may have seen the last of the All Blacks for a while as Sydney and the MCG will get all domestic Bledisloes in the future and neutral venues next of the ranks. From what I hear Denver is all but a done deal next year. This is one of the few instances in which NZRU is falling into line with the JON lead ARU. For one reason. Moolah. Both bodies made a motza from this event. They'll do the same next year. Future plans are for Dubai, Singapore and Tokyo. I have no doubt in the future that these events will then be raffled off to the highest bidder Superbowl style.

Are we happy with that? I mean, Brisbane went about a decade without an All Black test, and it seems it will be longer than that now. But this will be money in our national bodies back pockets. Meaning more money for star players, hopefully more development, more profile etc etc.

Personally, as a trade off I'd like to see some sort of in-bound tours happening. I'd got to Suncorp/Ballymore to see a France B team play a QLD (less Wallabies) game midweek of a test. But for that to happen, we'll need to be assured that those dastardly northern union send their full strength teams.
 
W

whocares

Guest
I wouldn't mind betting that all these big bucks will be used primarily for the ridiculous downpayments required for one of the future RWCs, Which I hear even England are struggling to cough up.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Tom said:
I wouldn't mind betting that all these big bucks will be used primarily for the ridiculous downpayments required for one of the future RWCs, Which I hear even England are struggling to cough up.

which aint such a bad thing if it will ultimately lead to a 'rainy day account' of $50mill, or whatever, like 2003.
 
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