Highlanders v Reds, Round 17, July 14. Party at Tony Brown's.

[gel]

I stand corrected.

My eye was immediately drawn to the lack of smiths in the team, and thought that was a big difference.

 

[Brumby Runner]

And it's not?

 

[RedsHappy]

Horwill appointed captain happened before Link came to the Reds. Phil Mooney did that.

Horwill in Links first year suffered a season ending injury in round two vs the Crusaders. If I remember correctly, Link played him at 6 the week before against the Tahs.

I realise that. My point - perhaps poorly put - was that Link clearly inherited an underperforming Reds team from 2009. He had to assess the entire team construction from Captain down and up again.

Often a new HC in need of major change will understandably change Captain (a la EJ (Eddie Jones) on taking over England).

Link did not do this and, under his new guidance, took what could in those troubled late 2009/early 2010 pre-season times be considered quite a risk to his new team goals in re-appointing Horwill as 2010 Captain.

I stand firmly by my view that if we could lure Gill back he's got better Captaincy potential (on top of his considerable playing value) than either a withering Moore or an incomplete young player like Kerevi or, for that matter, anybody else in the current squad. (Though from the current squad I'd appoint Higgers as Captain way ahead of anybody else.)

 

[emuarse]

I realise that. My point - perhaps poorly put - was that Link clearly inherited an underperforming Reds team from 2009. He had to assess the entire team construction from Captain down and up again.

Often a new HC in need of major change will understandably change Captain (a la EJ (Eddie Jones) on taking over England).

Link did not do this and, under his new guidance, took what could in those troubled late 2009/early 2010 pre-season times be considered quite a risk to his new team goals in re-appointing Horwill as 2010 Captain.

I stand firmly by my view that if we could lure Gill back he's got better Captaincy potential (on top of his considerable playing value) than either a withering Moore or an incomplete young player like Kerevi or, for that matter, anybody else in the current squad. (Though from the current squad I'd appoint Higgers as Captain way ahead of anybody else.)

Slipper would not give your post a "like".

 

[TOCC]

Am I reading that Highlanders team correctly?

There are a fair few positions with what appear to be their second choice players?

It's not to dissimilar to the team which beat the British and Irish Lions

 

[TOCC]

Gill is signed for 2018... so it's a rather moot point... by 2018, the ARU may have decided to cut another team

 

[RedsHappy]

Slipper would not give your post a "like".

No. IMO he's not a particularly good Reds Captain, as loyal and likeable as we know him to be. I also suspect accumulating injuries have badly eroded his rugby athletic potential.

 

[RedsHappy]

Gill is signed for 2018. so it's a rather moot point. by 2018, the ARU may have decided to cut another team

Yes, my whole team and coaching scenario change proposal above was/is moot as we all know that nothing much will change inside the QRU and relatedly inside the current Reds set-up either now or into 2018.

These bodies prefer weakness, avoidance and deflection to courageous leadership and facing facts.

 

[TOCC]

I actually don't mind Stiles as coach, I think their is merit to him as a head coach, but he needs a better support team around him. Arnold and Gilmore may be coaches for the future, but having them all coaching together now is akin to playing the Reds U20s team in Super Rugby, they simply aren't developed or mature enough yet.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Gilly is a fine player but not a captain. He should however be in the leadership group.

Gilly likes being one of the boys too much and all that goes with that.

 

[RedsHappy]

I actually don't mind Stiles as coach, I think their is merit to him as a head coach, but he needs a better support team around him. Arnold and Gilmore may be coaches for the future, but having them all coaching together now is akin to playing the Reds U20s team in Super Rugby, they simply aren't developed or mature enough yet.

If we are happy to wait for a few (or more?) years and indulge this coaching group up a supposed 'learning and personal development' cycle whilst also asking Reds' fans to pay good money to watch this slow coach-learn-and-grow cycle unfold as their main entertainment vs sighting serious excellence of team play and results, then fine.

But have the Reds/QRU got 'multiple years of gradual progress' up their sleeves? Is this scenario even realistically affordable and easily cash flow fundable with home Reds' crowds of (real count not lies) c. 7-10,000 (in a stadium that takes 52,500) and inevitably sponsors departing or cutting their payments?

People forget that Stiles has been in the Reds coaching set-up since _the 2014 season_, this being his 4th year with the Reds. In that time he has solely attained an improved Reds' scrum for a period (which is but a fraction of what a good Forwards coach needs to improve overall, and the Reds' scrum has not been outstanding in 2017).

 

[RugbyReg]

People forget that Stiles has been in the Reds coaching set-up since _the 2014 season_, this being his 4th year with the Reds. In that time he has solely attained an improved Reds' scrum for a period (which is but a fraction of what a good Forwards coach needs to improve overall, and the Reds' scrum has not been outstanding in 2017).

Not too dissimilar to Dave Wessels though. This is his 5th year with the Force though (I believe) and all that time they struggled. He took over partially last year (as did Stiles).

The most notable difference being the experience in the Assistant Coaches. The ARU were heavily influential in having Barakat and Gaffney involved. Shaun Berne is obviously a young coach, but at least with experience coaching in a highly professional outfit.

The ARU weren't involved in assistant coaching selection, I don't believe, and clearly selections were made for other reasons. Arnold and Gilmore have no professional rugby coaching experience and barely any experience coaching men. Most of us acknowledge that they were likely picked because of their low asking price (deservedly considering their lack of experience). I think we all acknowledge that was wrong. The decisions were made at a massive state of flux within the QRU. The new CEO was barely at his desk when appointments were made and the full depth of the financial problems were really being discovered.

If Stiles had some old heads around him this year. Not sure who but the likes of Scott Johnson, Brian Smith, Michael O'Connor, Les Kiss, Tim Lane would be worth considering (assuming they want an assistant role). Of course there are international options too but they would come at a higher cost.

 

[Ruggo]

Props should never be captain. Far too easy for them to be polarizing in the eyes of the ref due to the position.

Fuck it, I would have Cooper captain. I'm not joking either.

 

[dru]

Props should never be captain. Far too easy for them to be polarizing in the eyes of the ref due to the position.

Fuck it, I would have Cooper captain. I'm not joking either.

Seems like no one can get a word out as they are laughing too hard. But I agree. Or Hunt.

 

[Highlander35]

Surprised Coops isn't in the bin, looked like an obvious knock down to me.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[redstragic]

Thought we looked good for the first 60 seconds.

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[TSR]

If Tuttle was offside, at least one Highlander was first.

 

[gel]

Men playing schoolboys tbh.

Reds will really need to concentrate hard to get back into this one.

 

[ACR]

This game is a little embarrassing, on both sides at the moment.

 

[TSR]

Bloody quick thinking from George Smith.