Heineken Cup 2013

[the plastic paddy]

Not too pleased after last night but it was a funny game in many respects, we had the better of the first fifty but kept giving away tries via interceptions and desperate missed tackles. Paulie showed up well again and his fitness (crossed fingers) is a huge positive going to Quims. We have Ryan, Peter O'Mahony and Murray to come back in and hopefully Zebo although I wish Earls was fit. The Quims are not in great form either and the pressure will be on them. Hopefully we will have 5 or 6 thousand of the red army outside the Stoop on Sunday just to put a bit of spring in our lads step and make them wonder what the feck they are up against. I am on a strictly only speaking when necessary regime this week to preserve the voice, as I intend to try and shout, cheer and sing for the full eighty minutes!?!

 

[Italophile]

More power to you, tpp.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

Hate to say it but the weegies were very good and destroyed Munster in the scrum. A loss against Quins and I would say no POC for the lions.
On another note anyone know how much truth is in the rumour that welsh teams joining premiership and leaving pro12 ?

 

[Bardon]

There were talks between Stuart Gallagher who represents the Welsh regions and the English clubs. From what I've read on the topic there's absolutely no chance of the Welsh regions joining the Aviva premiership as it would have to be sanctioned by the RFU who aren't going to do that.

Also it's unlikely that the WRU would approve of the plan. Gallagher himself has admitted that the IRB would not sanction the Welsh regions playing in the English league. Also the regions are tied into their Pro12 agreement for a few years yet.

A few years down the line there could be the possibility of a joint English and Welsh league but not under the current Premiership format. What the English clubs have had to say about the matter is another thing. Gallagher is talking about a breakaway league that would be outside the remit of the WRU or RFU.

The main reason behind the desire to move with the English is the player drain from the Welsh regions caused by the salary cap imposed on the Welsh regions by the WRU. A few of the major issues that aren't clear, at least to me, are 1) What's in it for the English clubs? 2) How do the Welsh regions propose to generate all this extra cash for raised salary cap when a lot of the English clubs are making a loss? 3) How are the Welsh regions going to replace any WRU subsidies if the move isn't WRU sanctioned? 4) What happens when eventually 1 or more of the Welsh regions is relegated from the top tier? 5) Who picks up the pieces if 5-10yrs into the new league the regions change their mind again?

I'm sure there's plenty more issues to be resolved around this. But having said that, in recent years, there's been a power shift away from the national unions and to clubs/regions. I would not be surprised if there's a soccer style split between unions and clubs on the horizon and international rugby will suffer for it.

 

[JSRF10]

Munster have a good chance IF Ryan, POM and Murray can come in and raise their game. Quins will be scared of Munster and if they can keep it close, ROG and POC could drag Munster over the line. Good win for the Northies last night too, I can see them beating London South Africa especially as it could almost be an Ulster home game given the anticipated level of support. Regardless of what happens to Munster POC will travel with the Lions he really is just a massive cut above any other lock available.

I don't think there is any chance of the Welsh joining the English leagues:
1- English clubs wont vote it through, you'd think the Ospreys, Scarlets and maybe Blues would be in the top division i.e. English clubs will drop down and lose TV money
2- The English clubs signed a deal with BT for TV rights, I would assume that this deal won't let them alter the make up of the league
3- The IRB won't let it happen
4- The Welsh will cop on that there isn't a quick fix to their money problems and will stop whoring themselves out and finally do something productive, although it will probably take a sustained slump from the national team for this to happen

 

[Italophile]

Can't see it ever happening, m'self. Even if the obstacles - IRB, RFU, English clubs - were to be overcome, how would it really improve the Welsh teams' lot? The Welsh need to sort themselves out regionally.

 

[Bairdy]

Isn't there already a competition with English and Welsh teams? If I recall, it's called the LV Cup, I think?

 

[KevinO]

Isn't there already a competition with English and Welsh teams? If I recall, it's called the LV Cup, I think?

LV Cup is not with senior first teams. A lot of comps for development over there so it makes it hard to keep up.

 

[Italophile]

The LV Cup has become a means of (a) earning the teams some cash, there are payments for just taking part and decent prize money at the pointy end of the comp; and (b) the stronger teams giving their second-stringers and juniors some experience. The latter because the LV Cup has proved to be another commitment in an already heavy playing schedule.

The bonus of the comp is a place in the HC to the winner (if not already qualified) so it's taken much more seriously by some clubs than others. Eg, Sale, this season, were fielding their strongest team. They lost to Quins in the final.

 

[Italophile]

Hard to know where to post the news that the IRFU have dispensed with Deccie's services. Les Kiss to take the team to the US. Many many sighs of relief from our Irish friends, I'd imagine.

 

[the plastic paddy]

It should never be forgotten that DK got (possibly) the most talented group of players Ireland has ever seen over the line in 2009 to win the grand slam. Ultimately, I suspect, he lost the dressing room but those players have put a fierce amount of pressure on themselves that DK was a master at defusing and bringing upon himself. It would not surprise me if we were to see DK back at Munster when Penney goes as a mentor for Axel. I would like the next Irish coach to be a foreigner, preferably with extensive psychiatric training.

 

[Italophile]

An Irish mate of mine wants Joe Schmidt. In fact, he ran into Schmidt in a bar after a game and had a chat. Said he was a great fella. Asked him about the Ireland job. Schmidt had a good laugh and walked away.

Anyway, the Link McKenzie rumours will now multiply.

 

[the plastic paddy]

An Irish mate of mine wants Joe Schmidt. In fact, he ran into Schmidt in a bar after a game and had a chat. Said he was a great fella. Asked him about the Ireland job. Schmidt had a good laugh and walked away.

Anyway, the Link McKenzie rumours will not multiply.

I would love Schmidt but the rumours are he doesn't want it. Whether anyone will do any better than Kidney, time will tell but I suspect there will be some interesting books coming out around Christmas time?!?!?

 

[JSRF10]

Finally the Kidney era is over! Should have gone after the World Cup, should have gone after the Twickers debacle, should have gone after 60-0. Shocked he didn't have the grace to see that he was finished and fall on his sword, I'd have to agree it looked from after the World Cup he'd lost the dressing room. Injuries didn't help but he has oversaw the most under achieving period in Irish rugby when our provinces have been beating all comers.

I don't want anyone who is connected with the current coaching set up they should all go. Foley preferably to a side where he can work outside his comfort zone. Hopefully Link will take it, if not I can't think of too many others who are available.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Finally the Kidney era is over! Should have gone after the World Cup, should have gone after the Twickers debacle, should have gone after 60-0. Shocked he didn't have the grace to see that he was finished and fall on his sword, I'd have to agree it looked from after the World Cup he'd lost the dressing room. Injuries didn't help but he has oversaw the most under achieving period in Irish rugby when our provinces have been beating all comers.

I don't want anyone who is connected with the current coaching set up they should all go. Foley preferably to a side where he can work outside his comfort zone. Hopefully Link will take it, if not I can't think of too many others who are available.

How could a team go from playing as they did against Argentina in the autumn and for the first 50 minutes against Wales in Cardiff to what we saw from 50 minutes on in Cardiff? Could a theory be that the players got to 50 minutes in Cardiff, 30 nil up and playing Wales off the pitch and some of them thought, shit if we carry on like this we could end up with two more years being coached by Kidney? As I said above there are going to be some very interesting books coming out over this. I suspect BOD and DK cannot stand each other and the fall out in print is going to be seismic and not very good for Irish rugby unity, already the shitfest is kicking off with provincial lines being drawn. This is why I believe it is essential that the next coach is not Irish and increasingly I believe that Schmidt will not take the job because he knows he will be regarded as a Leinster man. Someone from right outside the set up like Nick Mallett would be my preference.

 

[JSRF10]

How could a team go from playing as they did against Argentina in the autumn and for the first 50 minutes against Wales in Cardiff to what we saw from 50 minutes on in Cardiff? Could a theory be that the players got to 50 minutes in Cardiff, 30 nil up and playing Wales off the pitch and some of them thought, shit if we carry on like this we could end up with two more years being coached by Kidney? As I said above there are going to be some very interesting books coming out over this. I suspect BOD and DK cannot stand each other and the fall out in print is going to be seismic and not very good for Irish rugby unity, already the shitfest is kicking off with provincial lines being drawn. This is why I believe it is essential that the next coach is not Irish and increasingly I believe that Schmidt will not take the job because he knows he will be regarded as a Leinster man. Someone from right outside the set up like Nick Mallett would be my preference.

I agree that there are a lot of players in the squad who's comments in public give the impression that they aren't massive Kidney fans. SOB coming out and saying that he wanted Joe Schmidt on the coaching staff after the NZ tour. ROG apparently had a documentry made which couldn't be shown because of comments he made about Kidney. Sexton saying it was a relief to be back at Leinster because they had a gameplan and he knew what the coaches wanted him to do. BOD came out with something similar. Dan Tuohy has put a few comments on twitter about Kidney. It is something that isn't limited to one province.

I think the managements style of holding on to what we have caused the implosion in Wales, nothing more sinister than negetive tactics. Irelands poor use of the bench meant that they couldn't bring on anyone to stem the flow.

I'd agree that the next coach has to be an outsider, a clean slate is needed for the national team. Although a new coach isn't all that is needed, we need a clearout of the IRFU also from top to bottom.

 

[the plastic paddy]

I agree that there are a lot of players in the squad who's comments in public give the impression that they aren't massive Kidney fans. SOB coming out and saying that he wanted Joe Schmidt on the coaching staff after the NZ tour. ROG apparently had a documentry made which couldn't be shown because of comments he made about Kidney. Sexton saying it was a relief to be back at Leinster because they had a gameplan and he knew what the coaches wanted him to do. BOD came out with something similar. Dan Tuohy has put a few comments on twitter about Kidney. It is something that isn't limited to one province.

I think the managements style of holding on to what we have caused the implosion in Wales, nothing more sinister than negetive tactics. Irelands poor use of the bench meant that they couldn't bring on anyone to stem the flow.

I'd agree that the next coach has to be an outsider, a clean slate is needed for the national team. Although a new coach isn't all that is needed, we need a clearout of the IRFU also from top to bottom.

I wasn't really suggesting that anyone threw the game. I think that it could have been subconscious if anything. Personally I think there is a fundamental problem in the Irish game with sitting on a lead and not pushing on to beat shite out of a side.

I think DK has copped a lot of the blame for the failings of the blazers, to have Kiss double jobbing for a year was taking the piss. However I think that the DK hands off approach was not working with the brutal injury rate. Increasingly I suspect that the modern game is going to move closer and closer to the orchestration we see in the likes of Gridiron because the injury rate will be such that players will have to slot into the system. This seems to be the case with Leinster, who are the best coached team in the NH, when a player is out injured the incoming player seems to slip seamlessly into the team, confident in what his job is. The only thing that coaching cannot do is bring in power which is Leinster's problem at the moment.

Next season we will effectively have four NZ coaches in charge in Ireland with Pat Lam coming to Connacht. The Penney plan is taking a while to bed in but he has been handicapped all season by having to work with someone elses squad in Munster. Anscombe has developed Ulster in spite of the nightmare they have had since christmas with injuries.

I don't think Schmidt wants the gig because he is shrewd enough to know that the new coach is going to need to combine the best of the four provinces, not just impose the Leinster blue print on the other three; Leinster will not be providing the same proportion of the Irish side in the next RWC as they have been over the last few years.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Tickets made it through the post and arrived this morning, I am off to the Stoop on sunday, Wooooohhhhoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JSRF10]

Good win for Leinster this morning in the Amlin. Ian Madigan was immense and big Mike Ross managed to waddle over for a try! Always good to see some over hyped English players get their defensive frailties exposed time after time as well.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Good win for Leinster this morning in the Amlin. Ian Madigan was immense and big Mike Ross managed to waddle over for a try! Always good to see some over hyped English players get their defensive frailties exposed time after time as well.

You tore them a new one, very entertaining game as well. Particularly enjoyed Ross' try. I asked whether Madser could be a late lions bolter, his display last night in front of Fatland will not have hurt his chances, unfortunately. Hopefully one down two to go for Irish teams against english teams. Ulster next, SUFTUM. And us tomorrow, SUAF.