Having a draft like in AFL

[liquor box]

A employment judge will look at it as a restriction in trade and the re-modelling a contrivance, you are insisting an employee move against their will.

Actually salary caps are just as dodgy legally, for that you have a group of companies working together to limit their employees wages.

I work for a huge company that has hundreds of locations and part of my contract is that I will move to other locations at the companies discression (they have to pay for moving costs). I knew this when I signed up and if I dont like it then I dont have a job.

My brother in law is in the Army and he gets moved across the country and overseas at his employer will.

I think it can be done legally if it is well thought out.

 

[liquor box]

We should be trying to grow state loyalties, not kill them off.

I say let each province have free rein over they players they develop, and only let the other provinces sign them if they are not getting a run. The smaller rugby states have already started to develop their own super rugby players, we need to encourage such development.

Also think all player contracts should be 2 seasons max, and run in sync. For example, all Australian super rugby players would sign 2012-2013 contracts, then renegotiate before signing 2014-2015 contracts. If a franchise wanted to sign a player mid cycles they could simply sign them for a season and then offer them a 2 season deal at the end of that season, if they wanted. Obviously you would need this for academies and to cover injuries and whatnot.

Only real reason for a draft is that it would be a great spectacle and they could make it into a dinner type function and sell tickets.

I think the time of state loyalty has gone, they are a franchise now and the dilution of talent across borders in the past has destroyed the concept of a team representing a state. If you take out players with overseas origin and interstate origin then you dont have much "home town" pride. I think it is more important to have successful teams based on performance rather than an out of date loyalty to a border.

I think the biggest key to this being a success is to pay the franchise that produces the talent. If the Force as an examply want to draft a player from the Reds academy then they should be forced to pay a percentage of the contrate to the Reds to pay for them to be able replace the player. This will promote the idea of teams developing their own talent and not just buying it. A great team will produce excess talent and make income from this.

 

[Joe Mac]

We should be trying to grow state loyalties, not kill them off.


Only real reason for a draft is that it would be a great spectacle and they could make it into a dinner type function and sell tickets.

The fact that it would be a great spectacle should be reason enough. It is a sport in a competitive environment. Good entertainment sells.

Secondly, the minnow states like WA and VIC have a much smaller base of players to chose from. Being able to pick up some fresh talent in the draft would increase the states interest in the game, hopefully getting more kids to pick up the game. This could only further encourage state participation...

 

[fatprop]

FP- players would have the option of entering into the draft or not... That is not a restriction of trade.

It is the only professional rugby union business in the country. They would be telling players where they must play, the first time a player takes it to court, it is gone.

The banking businesses in Australia can't say that every graduate has to go into a draft and they may be required to move anywhere in the country for the same reasons.

 

[The Mayor of Perth]

It works because an AFL player hasn't fought it, Terry Hill did and it was thrown out

It works because players nominate to enter the draft - you can't seriously think the AFL has no legal understanding.

 

[The Mayor of Perth]

Only slightly off thread but hey Bullrush, your next Dan Carter could be playing centre half forward for Hawthorn.

HAWTHORN president Jeff Kennett has urged the AFL to turn its attention to New Zealand as a country for expansion rather than South Africa and Ireland.

Speaking before the Hawks' clash with Melbourne on Sunday, Kennett said the main point in New Zealand's favour as an expansion option was its proximity.

"New Zealand is our closest country," he said. "There's a lot of good sportsmen over there who can't get to play in the good rugby teams because they're mainly occupied by Maoris and Islanders.

"There's a lot of young men who don't have a football code to excel in. I think that New Zealand, with its population, so close to Australia, would be a very good option to consider."

 

[James Buchanan]

Only slightly off thread but hey Bullrush, your next Dan Carter could be playing centre half forward for Hawthorn.

The Hawks already have three NZ kids on scholarships. Apparently all big, skilful boys.

Although, when I read that article for the first time I was a little concerned about the implications that one can draw from it. If someone wanted to get their panties in a bunch, it could be a lot of trouble for Mr. Kennett.

 

[lily]

Bo Jackson was so annoyed by being selected by Tampa Bay that he decided to play for the Kansas City Royals. For those out there that dont get this, he was the No1 draft pick in the NFL and chose to go to baseball instead. Same can be said for Warren Moon and Raghib Ismail who went to the Canadian Football league. Players will always be able to dodge the draft.

 

[dobduff11]

To be fair to Bo the bucs were the worst team in NFl history at that time

oh yeah and he was an athletic freak

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Bo was an incredible athlete and it was amazing that he played at the very top level in two pro sports in the US. It's been a long time since anyone did that.

 

[James Buchanan]

Bo was an incredible athlete and it was amazing that he played at the very top level in two pro sports in the US. It's been a long time since anyone did that.

Didn't MJ play MLB for a bit?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

He got to AAA minor league baseball from memory. Wasn't anywhere near good enough to play at the top level.

 

[HKTiger]

It works in the AFL for a combination of reasons this is based on the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the AFL and the AFLPA.

This agreement:
- Guarantees minimum salaries and minimum match payments
- Minimum list sizes
- Minimum 2 year contracts for draftees
- Superannuation
- Welfare benefits after x years on an AFL list
- Acceptance of a Salary Cap
- Acceptance of drafting
- Etc. (The CBA is openly available on the AFL website)

All AFL players are contracted to the AFL via AFL contracts and 'sub-contracted' (so to speak) to the individual clubs.

So in return for guaranteeing a minimum pool (17 clubs by 44 players) of professional AFL players along with guaranteed benefits etc. the AFLPA signed a CBA which prevents them suing the AFL. Given that there are professional leagues that are not the AFL (WAFL, SANFL, VFL along with lots of suburban leagues) non-AFL players can't sue for restraint of trade as they are free to play outside the AFL (they may earn less but they have an option). To be drafted or rookied, you must sign an AFL draft application which states that you will abide by the CBA and AFL terms. Thus you can't enter the system without agreeing to it.

Very elegant and quite simple.

Not sure you could do it in Rugby. It does require the Players Assoc and the Union to agree terms. If that happens it might be possible.

 

[Joe Mac]

The banking businesses in Australia can't say that every graduate has to go into a draft and they may be required to move anywhere in the country for the same reasons.

That is a terrible comparison. The banks largely all do the same thing and pay comparatively for similar roles. There is only one Super 15 competition in the Southern Hemisphere not 10 or 15 for the player to chose from.

I agree with HK Tiger at the bottom. If the Players Union could agree to it, the players still have the option of playing in the Shute Shield if they chose not to accept the contract.

 

[MrTimms]

HAWTHORN president Jeff Kennett has urged the AFL to turn its attention to New Zealand as a country for expansion rather than South Africa and Ireland.

Speaking before the Hawks' clash with Melbourne on Sunday, Kennett said the main point in New Zealand's favour as an expansion option was its proximity.

"New Zealand is our closest country," he said. "There's a lot of good sportsmen over there who can't get to play in the good rugby teams because they're mainly occupied by Maoris and Islanders.

"There's a lot of young men who don't have a football code to excel in. I think that New Zealand, with its population, so close to Australia, would be a very good option to consider."

They are already doing that a bit, but cleverly, investing in the kids and waiting for it to pay.

When I was in at Nth Harbour Stadium recently for WC stuff, there was a guy walking about with a Kiwikick shirt, looked very similar to Auskick, so I searched and sure enough... http://www.nzafl.co.nz/AFLKiwikickforchildren5to12/tabid/290/Default.aspx

 

[Rob42]

Good summary of the AFL system there HK Tiger. I can see now why the players assoc go for it. And obviously they can go around it for "marquee"-type signings like Israel Folau. But what would rugby do with young guys who go to league for a couple of years and then want to return, or go to Europe and then return?

 

[fatprop]

That is a terrible comparison. The banks largely all do the same thing and pay comparatively for similar roles. There is only one Super 15 competition in the Southern Hemisphere not 10 or 15 for the player to chose from.

I agree with HK Tiger at the bottom. If the Players Union could agree to it, the players still have the option of playing in the Shute Shield if they chose not to accept the contract.

It isn't the best, but there are 5 pro teams (or businesses) that the a draft would require players to go where ever they are told.

I appreciate the love of the "evening up" of the talent, but how would the Qlders like to see the next Cooper drafted off to Melbourne, or even the Tahs, despite wanting to stay with his family and the team he wants to play with.

It is all a bit too socialist for me.

Look at AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), he wanted to move to Sydney be closer to his partner. A draft may have seen him moved to the Force, how is that fair on the player?

I would rather see players wanting to move somewhere because the club is going somewhere, and has a good program

 

[Richard D. James]

There would be an age limit and players like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would not be subject to a draft, he would be considered a free agent and could go where he likes.

 

[Joe Mac]

A draft FP only covers young undeveloped talent looking to break into Professional Rugby. Not experienced campaigners. The players in the draft generally sign a 2 year contract and arent really expected to make it into the starting team until their second year. Think of Liam Gill at the Reds this year.

I highly doubt even the most talented players at that age would be averse to entering the draft if it meant they would be picked up by one of the 5 teams. By the time they were getting game time they would only be 1 season away from signing to the club of their choice. This gives the poorer franchise the chance to make some money from selling him even if he doesnt want to stay... Everyone wins, including the fans who get to see an evening showcasing all of the games young talent before they make it to the big time...

I am surprised that on G&GR of all places there is such little interest for such an innovative way for us to raise some cash to stop younger players heading to league because a lack of money to develop players...

Anyone got a better idea to raise some money for the game? Maybe JON should force more injuroes on the squad by getting the Wallabies to play another 5 games every season...

 

[James Buchanan]

Also, speaking re: AFL, for a player like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), there exists trade mechanisms where his club can obtain some benefit for him leaving. Eg: they could try and secure an up and coming player or a draft pick from the other club to ensure the process goes ahead. As long as the parties involved aren't trying to screw each other, it works well.

There are other elements to the process. Non-1st year players entering the draft can nominate a wage that they can only be drafted for. This ensures only club which can afford their salary takes them (although it is sometimes used just to control where the player ends up).

Also, it's becoming more common for players to express preferences where they want to go. Clubs are realising there isn't much point having a player on your list who doesn't want to be there. Still, how much influence this has on the process is relative to how high profile/good the player is.

All that said, AFL is doing a lot right and even if they aren't used by rugby, it is with considering some of their ideas. Some of the best things that the Rebs so far have done have been directly stolen from AFL. Watching kids play some sort of junior rugby on aami park at half time was heartwarming for me.