Has Burger been cited?

[Scarfman]

Dan Vickerman - (1.) Dangerous play - Charge on Heinrich Brussouw;
(2.) Dangerous play - Charge on Jannie du Plessis.

Anyone care to venture an 'unbiased' opinion on whether these players listed above should have been cited or not....

I watch Dan V pretty closely aroud the rucks. He's the most effective ruck clearer we've had since John Eales. I reckon Dan is getting it pretty close to right. Bakkies regularly goes way too far in rucks - deliberately injuring prone players. I think Dan plays extremely hard, but always this just side of legal.

Unbiased? I dunno. It's my honest opinion, anyway.

 

[Blue]

Why Burger does this is beyond me. He is hard enough and good enough without it. Something in his brain pops in situations like that.

 

[mark_s]

I was going to only agree, but thought I would add some words. If I was an SA fan I would be hoping that having the captaincy (with appropriate coaching staff around him) would result in burger cutting this sort of stuff out. There are quite a few examples from rugby league of players who have gone from being known thugs to great players and leaders – Paul Gallen being one that I have seen first hand.

It’s a pity this incident occurred, as Burger was otherwise brilliant on the weekend and only just behind Pocock for best on ground.

 

[Slim 293]

Radike Samo - Dangerous tackle - No arms / shoulder charge on Bryan Habana.

James Horwill - Dangerous tackle - High tackle / choke on Willem Alberts

Dan Vickerman - (1.) Dangerous play - Charge on Heinrich Brussouw;
(2.) Dangerous play - Charge on Jannie du Plessis.

Anyone care to venture an 'unbiased' opinion on whether these players listed above should have been cited or not....

No.

 

[08umema]

Do you need the gif address? Can PM it.

Nope all good, hopped on the home laptop and saw it right away

 

[Army_Gav]

The guys an immovable object at any and every breakdown he gets to. I was having a lighthearted approach at this as the game is over, but as stated before Pocock not supporting his own weight isn't the offence we're talking about.

That's a hard one to call. A) His feet are for the most part grounded B) Initially, his shoulders are higher then his hips C) The body position of the tackled player

How long does it take the Boks players to join the ruck legally? Fourie du Preez simply strolls over and grabs Pocock's head. Spies is the 1st player to actually ruck.

 

[08umema]

That's a hard one to call. A) His feet are for the most part grounded B) Initially, his shoulders are higher then his hips C) The body position of the tackled player

How long does it take the Boks players to join the ruck legally? Fourie du Preez simply strolls over and grabs Pocock's head. Spies is the 1st player to actually ruck.

I can't see the image on my work computer so I am unable to comment until later. From what I can recall Pocock was initially supporting his own body weight until Rocky and Alexander joined in. His feet are grounded until Burger tries to clear him. Once Burger fell over and tried again he was entering from the side. Hard one to call as it could have gone both ways. Obviously the issue here is the contact above the shoulders and the raking motion being used by Schalk. But like I said the game is over and Pocock not supporting his own weight isn't the issue being discussed. More than happy to drop the issue as some people are outraged over Pocock's alleged cheating, but he adapted his game as the ref let the ruck become a free-for-all.

 

[StonerJack]

Radike Samo - Dangerous tackle - No arms / shoulder charge on Bryan Habana.

James Horwill - Dangerous tackle - High tackle / choke on Willem Alberts

Dan Vickerman - (1.) Dangerous play - Charge on Heinrich Brussouw;
(2.) Dangerous play - Charge on Jannie du Plessis.

Anyone care to venture an 'unbiased' opinion on whether these players listed above should have been cited or not....

The Samo tackle was a great tackle. No problems there. It's quite clear in the picture Braveheart81 posted that it wasn't a shoulder charge.

The other two I'm not sure about. If you can provide footage it might be a little easier for everyone.

 

[pete88]

Why not? Thats pretty much what I did. Just curious for another perspective. Didn't plan on posting at all, but while the world cup was on, saw that someone was wrong on the internet; one thing led to another. . .

Made me laugh, in a "hey that's what I do" kind of way.

 

[pete88]

As Blue has now said a number of times, WTF Schalk, you could be so much better. The rugby he played was phenomenal on Suanday, I haven't seen him be so awesome for years (but I haven't seen every game he plays).

 

[Brisbok]

The Samo tackle was a great tackle. No problems there. It's quite clear in the picture Braveheart81 posted that it wasn't a shoulder charge.

The other two I'm not sure about. If you can provide footage it might be a little easier for everyone.

Without actually saying the Samo tackle was illegal or not, I find that image to be quite inconclusive really. Nowhere in the picture can you see his right arm. Given that his right shoulder is the point of impact, it may very well be a shoulder charge. Whilst at the same time, his right arm could be wrapping around Habana's body but is just not visible on that image.

In no way is it "clear in the picture that it wasn't a shoulder charge" IMO.

 

[Braveheart81]

Law 10.4 (g) states:
Dangerous charging. A player must not charge or knock down an opponent carrying the ball without trying to grasp that player.

From the image, Samo is clearly trying to grasp the player with his left arm. Regardless of what the right arm is doing (which we can't see), he has made an attempt to grasp the player which is all that is required under the laws of the game.

 

[pete88]

Without actually saying the Samo tackle was illegal or not, I find that image to be quite inconclusive really. Nowhere in the picture can you see his right arm. Given that his right shoulder is the point of impact, it may very well be a shoulder charge. Whilst at the same time, his right arm could be wrapping around Habana's body but is just not visible on that image.

In no way is it "clear in the picture that it wasn't a shoulder charge" IMO.

His left arm is clearly playing a minor role in the tackle, hence there are arms in the tackle. If he were shoulder chargin I think we would see hisright arm between him and Habana, that's what I define as a shouulder charge. It's one of those 50/50 ones that depends on interpretation of the law I guess. For example, I think Palu's hit on Kearney in our '09 EOYT was perfectly legal, Rob Kearney's hit on Elsom in the act of scoring our second try that match was perfectly illegal. Thought Owen Franks's hit on Richard Brown last year in Bledisloe II was only an issue cos it looked high (can't find footage).

 

[Brisbok]

Law 10.4 (g) states:
Dangerous charging. A player must not charge or knock down an opponent carrying the ball without trying to grasp that player.

From the image, Samo is clearly trying to grasp the player with his left arm. Regardless of what the right arm is doing (which we can't see), he has made an attempt to grasp the player which is all that is required under the laws of the game.

Good thing the laws allow for some interpretation then, because otherwise that is quite ridiculous.

Does that mean you should be allowed to do a rugby league style shoulder charge so long as your opposite arm appears to be making an attempt to grasp the player? That is ludicrous.

 

[vidiot]

FFS.

Samo's tackle? Honestly? Is that the best use of fucking electrons you can come up with?

 

[Blue]

Spies is the 1st player to actually ruck.

Not possible. Wouldn't know what it is if it grabbed him in the gazoneys.

 

[Braveheart81]

Good thing the laws allow for some interpretation then, because otherwise that is quite ridiculous.

Does that mean you should be allowed to do a rugby league style shoulder charge so long as your opposite arm appears to be making an attempt to grasp the player? That is ludicrous.

I don't actually know how you could be pretty much side on running at someone for a shoulder charge and have your opposite arm in any sort of position to grasp the player.

Obviously the interpretation of the law is what constitutes an attempt at grasping the player. You would have to assume that an attempt would have to involve at least making contact with the arm(s) that is trying to grasp the player.

I just don't see how, based on the laws of the game, that Samo's tackle was in any way illegal.

 

[Bullrush]

His left arm is clearly playing a minor role in the tackle, hence there are arms in the tackle. If he were shoulder chargin I think we would see hisright arm between him and Habana, that's what I define as a shouulder charge. It's one of those 50/50 ones that depends on interpretation of the law I guess. For example, I think Palu's hit on Kearney in our '09 EOYT was perfectly legal, Rob Kearney's hit on Elsom in the act of scoring our second try that match was perfectly illegal. Thought Owen Franks's hit on Richard Brown last year in Bledisloe II was only an issue cos it looked high (can't find footage).

I'd put money on Paul Williams getting a penalty, if not a yellow card, if he made exactly the same tackle.

Is it legal?? F**kd if I know.....lol

 

[Brisbok]

I don't actually know how you could be pretty much side on running at someone for a shoulder charge and have your opposite arm in any sort of position to grasp the player.

Obviously the interpretation of the law is what constitutes an attempt at grasping the player. You would have to assume that an attempt would have to involve at least making contact with the arm(s) that is trying to grasp the player.

I just don't see how, based on the laws of the game, that Samo's tackle was in any way illegal.

You can't see how it would be physically possible to put your left arm in a forward pointing position, whilst leading with your right shoulder with right arm at the side of your body making no attempt to wrap around?

 

[Brisbok]

I'd put money on Paul Williams getting a penalty, if not a yellow card, if he made exactly the same tackle.
Is it legal?? F**kd if I know.....lol

...or Butch James.