George Smith - Will / Should He Play Against The Lions?

[Scoey]

Y
You're talking about a few games as opposed to virtually the whole season. George only missed the first two games for the Brumbies. As I stated earlier many players will have played less games this season and will still get picked, including Genia, Horwill, Palu, etc. it's not a simple question.

So it's down to the number of games? I don't buy that. It really is a simple question.
I will take your repeated avoidance of the question as an acknowledgement that when you remove the sentimental aspect attached to George you find your views in conflict with your stance.

 

[Dave Beat]

Seriously, Smith may have the experience but there's no way you can say with certainty he's playing better than Hooper or Gill atm. Hooper & Gill are freaks, let them rip.

Qwerty I can say with certainty experience smith is along way ahead.
I can also say with certainty Smith bring a far more complete game on the ball, with the ball, and also in D.
I'd say hooper, gill, and even Pockock look up to Smith and would listen to any advice he passes on.

 

[Dave Beat]

Y
You're talking about a few games as opposed to virtually the whole season. George only missed the first two games for the Brumbies. As I stated earlier many players will have played less games this season and will still get picked, including Genia, Horwill, Palu, etc. it's not a simple question.

Merrow, I think you are missing Scoey's point. I don't think he is questioning the undoubted assets Smith would bring to the Wobs, I do think he agrees with Smiths skills. He is simply pointing out policy and why it is in place, it is in place for good reason, I simply think Smith is a very worthy exemption to policy.

 

[Merrow]

Merrow, I think you are missing Scoey's point. I don't think he is questioning the undoubted assets Smith would bring to the Wobs, I do think he agrees with Smiths skills. He is simply pointing out policy and why it is in place, it is in place for good reason, I simply think Smith is a very worthy exemption to policy.

I'm not missing his point, I just don't believe that it's a black or white issue.

 

[Dave Beat]

I'm not missing his point, I just don't believe that it's a black or white issue.

The unfortunate thing is Policy is Black and White - I'm with you I'd love to see him play and i think he should be granted to opportunity. My only concern with him playing Robbie Deans could wreck a magnificent career.

 

[qwerty51]

There's no way Smith is 'clearly' better than Hooper or Gill. Gill and Hooper are the two best forwards going around in the world right now.

 

[Bairdy]

After trawling through the thread, my opinion has changed.

Initially I would've been fine with George Smith playing for the Wallabies, but after all the discussion regarding the ARU policy, I think it's imperative that the ARU do not select Smith, nor Burgess.
Gill and Hooper are currently contracted to play in Australia for their super rugby teams, while Smith is contracted to Suntory, while being loaned to the Brumbies - on what I can only assume is a single party contract with them, rather than the tri-party contract you ought to have in order to play for the Wallabies (someone correct me on that if I'm wrong).

So in that sense, for the ARU to select him would only put the game in Australia in danger of a mass exodus of players heading overseas to play in Japan or France, and coming back to be loaned to super 15 teams to play a handful of matches and be selected for the national team.

I don't think we need to move heaven and earth to have Smith play; we have Gill and Hooper, and if God forbid, one of them were to be injured, Hodgson, Alcock, Fainga'a or whoever else there is would be chosen.

 

[Brumbieman]

Last year the ARU, for 5 months, stonewalled both Cooper and Genia who both wanted to play a one off season in Japan after the present S15 season. They were both told that their choice was ARU contract OR Japan rugby. Not both.

Link, the Qld franchise and it's players, held their breath while the ARU played this game of extreme brinkmanship with their two star players. Thankfully Genia and Cooper blinked, and maybe the ARU should be admired for sticking to their principles.

Iif the ARU gives George Smith an ARU contract and then lets him flit off to Japan, Blind Freddy could see that a fair amount of apoplexy will eminate north of the border. And so much for principles.

That the Brumbies demanded that any money that Cooper made from his charity boxing match be added to the Qld salary cap also probably won't endear Link et al to the idea of Smith, with his $1 million+ Japanese contract, playing for the Wallabies.

Fuck Genia and Cooper, they haven't played 110 tests for Australia, won a Lions series, two Bledisloe cups, Tri-Nations, played in a WC final, won 2 Super rugby titles and half a dozen Super rugby player of the year awards.


Wen they do that, I would have no issue with them taking half a year off to play in Japan.

 

[qwerty51]

Smith has nothing on Hooper's speed (and that imo is the best quality out of all 3) Gill is better at the breakdown than Smith. Smith may have experience and does have a complete game but there's no standout quality for him. Every week I see Gill and Hooper play I just sit there in in astonishment in what they do and how many collisions they take yet they shrug them off and get back up. They're young and keen, they'd have a crack and do the job against the Lions as good as anyone. A tag team of the two young guns is a scintillating prospect.

 

[Brumbieman]

There's no way Smith is 'clearly' better than Hooper or Gill. Gill and Hooper are the two best forwards going around in the world right now.

Gill is better at the breakdown than Smith.

Smith may have experience and does have a complete game but there's no standout quality for him

Where exactly do you buy your drugs?

 

[qwerty51]

I know that sounds silly but it's just because he's such an complete player, he does everything so well. I guess there's really no point there so I'll drop it. I still rate Smith the 3rd best player in the world, just have Hooper and Gill ahead.

 

[Quick Hands]

Fair enough. Look at it this way. One is here on a temporary basis for part of the season and the other has committed exclusively to Aus rugby for two years?
The main difference in your eyes is that one is playing in Aus before the tour. I get that. It's the level of commitment that makes Burgess more eligible in my eyes.

I get your point there, but I believe that super rugby is too important to Australian rugby - it must remain the vehicle for Wallaby selection.

For what it's worth, if I were a Wallaby selector (which I'm not),
I wouldn't pick Smith ahead of Gill and Hooper, but I'd like to be able to consider him. The reason being, all 3 are playing well, but Hooper and Gill are the future and need to have confidence shown in them by the selectors/coach. Throughout this thread I've only ever said that Smith should be able to be considered for selection because and only because he is currently playing super rugby for an Australian team.

In relation to the half back situation, clearly Genia and White are the top 2 in that order. If for some reason both where injured, I believe again that the next player should come from the super rugby competition. It just has to be that way, regardless of what Burgess will or won't be doing in 2014. My reasoning is that allowing a player to go to France and earn big money and then come back at the conclusion of his contract and be selected for the Wallabies without playing 1 minute of super rugby would, long term, not be in the interests of Australian rugby even though short term it might be.

 

[Dave Beat]

I know that sounds silly but it's just because he's such an complete player, he does everything so well. I guess there's really no point there so I'll drop it. I still rate Smith the 3rd best player in the world, just have Hooper and Gill ahead.

Qwerty, I was stuck with a response to your last post because I rate Gill, and Hooper highly and your posts are always well structured. I'd be happy with either of the 3 but I want Smith involved as Hooper and Gill will benefit as well as the whole squad.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Man this thread is going in circles.

The question remains if George Smith is willing to enter into negotiations with the ARU. Eligible or not right now, he at some point will have to enter into some sort of terms before he's even selected for a squad let alone play.

Then all of those negotiations will be played out in the public arena as they will be unique. What will RUPA have to say about it?

 

[qwerty51]

I imagine he is very keen to play if wanted.

 

[terry j]

can I sidetrack just a bit to 'clear' the rules here?

was watching winston stanley play tonight for the force, so a hypothetical (and dunno if the rules for the NZ union are different from ours)..even tho he is playing for an australian franchise yet still in supr rugby and obviously not OS, is he eligible for AB selection?

We, prob cause we don't have the depth, have many players in an NZ or SA super rugby team (have there been any?) but let's say there was one. He is not playing for an australian team, but would he be available for the wallabies? He's not OS (and so has not departed for the big bucks) and is playing Super Rugby, how would the rules deal with a person like that?

(In my idle moments, imagining myself as JOC (James O'Connor) when he was changing franchises, I thought how marvellous a life experience it would be to maybe play four years with an aus team, four years with an NZ team, four years with an SA team...that would just about wind up your career yet imagine living in these different countries and cultures, and maybe playing these different styles of rugby could even be a massive boost to your individual playing ability. Do countries have distinctly different laying a styles and training regimens?? Anyway, sort of the background to my question)

 

[Dan54]

Terry, no Stanley is not eliglble for ABs, as he also is not contracted to NZRU, or indeed regitered as a player in any NZ club.

And Gwerty, can I have a lend of your coloured glasses if you think Gill,Hooper and Smith are 3 best players in world right now. Not knocking you too much mate, as I like to see a man that is a one eyed supporter at times, but that laying it on a little thick I think.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Fuck Genia and Cooper, they haven't played 110 tests for Australia, won a Lions series, two Bledisloe cups, Tri-Nations, played in a WC final, won 2 Super rugby titles and half a dozen Super rugby player of the year awards.


Wen they do that, I would have no issue with them taking half a year off to play in Japan.

Actually Smith didn't take half a year off. He stormed off to France 6 months into a 2 year contract because Deans put him on the bench. There are many who are concerned he may do the same during the Lions tour if he is picked and doesn't get the starting spot. I wouldn't risk that sort of disruption. Give the lollies to the kids who honour their ARU contracts.

 

[Joe Blow]

Yes Qwerty, George Smith is clearly better than both Hooper and Gill , neither of whom are anywhere near world class like Smith. He can also play all 3 backrow positions at the highest level and despite his many years in the game and vast experience he is still playing pretty close to his peak.......

But that is neither here nor there in the discussion on his eligibility.

 

[BDA]

Actually Smith didn't take half a year off. He stormed off to France 6 months into a 2 year contract because Deans put him on the bench. There are many who are concerned he may do the same during the Lions tour if he is picked and doesn't get the starting spot. I wouldn't risk that sort of disruption. Give the lollies to the kids who honour their ARU contracts.

You're the first person im aware of that has suggested such a thing.