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G&GR Wallaby player of the Year: ENG

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Spook

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NTA said:
Spook said:
Whittaker :lmao: We tried that and he failed.

Gregan failed in a lot more games at Test level than Whitaker.

No, Whittaker failed in every test he played against decent opposition (Not that he played many genuine tests, but there was THAT match againt NZ in the rain where he was awful). Whittaker was a competent Super 14 scrum half but not of international quality. Burgess is to Genia what Whittaker was to Gregan - the new anthems.

By the way, you pulled me up for rating Alexander. He actually put in as many tackles (11 each) and runs as Fat Cat. Seemed to arrive at quite a few rucks as well but I've not seen any stats on this. Given he is a TH, he deserves a point for the work load. ;)
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Spook said:
By the way, you pulled me up for rating Alexander. He actually put in as many tackles (11 each) and runs as Fat Cat. Seemed to arrive at quite a few rucks as well but I've not seen any stats on this. Given he is a TH, he deserves a point for the work load. ;)

I thought Alexander played alright. He made some good tackles right on the edge of the ruck/maul that removed any chance of England getting a rolling maul going plus he contributed to a solid scrummaging performance. It seems Fat Cat gets judged by his scrummaging these days while Alexander gets judged on his alround game. If anything, it should really be the other way round given the importance of TH to a solid scrum.

Of course both Fat Cat and Alexander are key parts of a quite dysfunctional Aus lineout at the moment.
 
S

Spook

Guest
mark_s said:
Spook said:
By the way, you pulled me up for rating Alexander. He actually put in as many tackles (11 each) and runs as Fat Cat. Seemed to arrive at quite a few rucks as well but I've not seen any stats on this. Given he is a TH, he deserves a point for the work load. ;)

I thought Alexander played alright. He made some good tackles right on the edge of the ruck/maul that removed any chance of England getting a rolling maul going plus he contributed to a solid scrummaging performance. It seems Fat Cat gets judged by his scrummaging these days while Alexander gets judged on his alround game. If anything, it should really be the other way round given the importance of TH to a solid scrum.

Of course both Fat Cat and Alexander are key parts of a quite dysfunctional Aus lineout at the moment.

Well said Mark - I mentioned in another thread that Fat Cat and Clucker are working well as a unit around the pitch. Whilst Fat Cat is world class, Alexander is doing well for a rookie TH. They are both incredibly mobile.

I actually haven't been looking at the lifting. However, our lineout was pretty good with Sharpe around (same props).
 

Henry

Bill Watson (15)
3. Genia
2. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
1. Rocky

Would like to see Burgess get a run sometime soon though, i'm sure being on the bench so much lately will have fired him up a bit. Surely he has been working on his passing...
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Scotty said:
One of my posts from above:

I don't give a crap if Genia is Red, Tah, Brumby or alien, I still would have been calling for him to get a go after the first few games of the recent 3N, where Burgess was shown up, and contributed heavily to our losses vs the ABs. You may not believe it but it is true.

Of course Burgess was the best half back of 2008. But you might also remember there wasn't much to choose from. Of course Burgess deserved to start the 2009 season (see what I have put in bold above, just to make sure those old eyes can read it). But you might also remember he hasn't played well at all this year for the Wallabies, and despite those performances you mentioned, he most definately was not what I'd call great or even good over the 2008 season.

I don't dispute those facts. You might need to read my post again - I am clearly talking about the excuses that (some) Tah fans are using in relation to Burgess' performances - not his selection. My 91 year old grandfather can follow this line of conversation - why can't you? ::)

Actually, sorry about the old man comments, what you really remind me of is a stubborn child.

I just get quite annoyed with the concerted movement that the Wallabies losses were down to Burgess.

I am very happy that we have found someone better than Genia, as I am when we find someone better for any position, next I think will be Pocock for Smith. Again not because Smith is crap, but because Pocock is playing 7 better.

Genia has looked best in the two game this year that Aus has gained parity in the pigs at the breakdown. He played very well in both those games and was ineffectual in the games when the pigs failed twice against the ABs. You may notice a pattern there ......................

Now the spot is clearly Genia's to lose and Burgess, or someone better than him, will have to wait their/his chance.
 
S

Spook

Guest
You have a point Fat but Burgess ruined opportunities when Oz were on the front foot (and presented clean ball) with bad passing. Genia has also looked far better in those game where the pack struggled.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
mark_s said:
Spook said:
By the way, you pulled me up for rating Alexander. He actually put in as many tackles (11 each) and runs as Fat Cat. Seemed to arrive at quite a few rucks as well but I've not seen any stats on this. Given he is a TH, he deserves a point for the work load. ;)

I thought Alexander played alright. He made some good tackles right on the edge of the ruck/maul that removed any chance of England getting a rolling maul going plus he contributed to a solid scrummaging performance. It seems Fat Cat gets judged by his scrummaging these days while Alexander gets judged on his alround game. If anything, it should really be the other way round given the importance of TH to a solid scrum.

Of course both Fat Cat and Alexander are key parts of a quite dysfunctional Aus lineout at the moment.

Alexander will never be a dominant scrummager, but he has done very well at providing good stability in the last two games and that allows Robinson to do his thing.

If he can continue that and provide a good workrate around the field Aus will be well provided for.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
louie said:
waratahjesus said:
i'd like to hear from the people who have blind faith in genia, mainly reds fans.
still believe in burgess, but as many of my posts said, i think burgess is best in the last twenty, still think he can create more than genia if were under pressure, thankfully, the little guy hasnt been under as much as burgo was during the start of the tri nations and genias passes that cause giteau to check his run and the fact that quade had to jump to catch pretty much every pass he threw at him, well that dont mean nothing. australia under robbie deans has turned into south africa, you just ignore genias problems cos he is black!

right here. i too think burgo would be good in the last 10-15min.

also don't be so stupid as to claim that no one see's his mistakes because he's black. can one of the mods please do something about this. not cool.

Ah, sorry. I stop reading WJ's posts after the sentence gets into the 3rd or 4th line.

I think he was joking - I hope he was joking - and that this is an Ali G reference.

Although while we're on the subject, it's weird that the English talk about Genia as the new Gregan? He plays nothing like GG, so not sure what they are finding similar?
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
I went to the game but haven't seen a replay. I took some notes.

After the first half I was thinking that rugby was a dreadful game. I was seriously questioning the future of the game. It improved towards the end of the 1st half and in the 2nd half but it still wasn't a great game. Boring, kick oriented, there wasnt much atmosphere and what excitement there was felt manufactured (eg Swing Low). My other first half thoughts were: Giteau has nothing. He wasn't setting up his outside men, and all he has is the show and go. Based on that, I wouldn't pick Giteau next week. I'd play Dunning at 10 as a preference.

The locks were running it a bit though and seemed a bit more interested in the breakdown. I couldn't tell them apart from the stand. Particularly in the first half the Wallabies displayed no real urgency. There was a real contrast to the NZ v Wales game.

England had no imagination and who would bother watching when they play like this. Yes, Johnny made his tackles etc, but it was clear how much ambition he had in the first 5 minutes when he dropped the goal. At least oz played some rugby, particularly in the last 15mins of the first half and in the second half. Curious that Smith is being criticised for his game. At the ground I thought he did a lot of off the ball work. In the first half, I thought Palu, Robinson, Genia, Cooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) all played well. I thought the refereeing was pedantic. I didn't realise a scrum could be penalised for the back 5 walking around.

In the second half, Ioane was good. He was attracting defenders when he ran the ball and made some good tackles. Cooper was playing 10 mostly and, curiously, Gits was often at 13 with Ioane crashing it at 12. Elsom had a better 2nd half which was lucky, because he did bugger all in the first half. He was very good at 2 in the lineout but not around the field except for, perhaps, a 20min period in the 2nd half.

Smith does a huge amount of filling in in defence. Often running from one breakdown to the far side of the next where we were short.

I didn't think Moore had a great game apart from as part of a good scrum. When the Poms were putting some pressure on, he was standing around doing a little too much watching for my liking. Our backrow was outplayed on the ground in the first 20mins. In fact, our forwards were outplayed for the first 20mins.

The scrum was good. The England front row were behomeths but looked a bit on the sloppy side. I think their fitness didn't last and, had it been better, we may not have gained the forward dominance we eventually did.

Lineout recovered from a very bad start to turn out ok but Ireland will have noticed that we use Rocky at 2 a lot and when we need good ball. I didn't notice how Mumm went when he came on but I really think a smart coach and decent lineout coach will be able to deconstruct our lineout big time. Chisolm and Horwill are not compatible together in the lineout. This is a particular worry against the Irish because their lineout is the second best behind the Boks. The problem is that we don't really have a back up lock. I don't think Chapman or Dennis are capable of playing lock in a test. We really are struggling at lock and have less options there than anywhere else (for example, 9, 10 or 15).

The most pleasing part of the game was our defence. Initially, our pillar post defence. Then, our wider defence improved too. However, I'm not taking too much out of that because the Poms couldn't score a try against the Maryborough Ladies XV on that performance.
 

Jethro Tah

Bob Loudon (25)
I agree Cutter, the first half was pretty ordinary. I think both the All Blacks v Wales weekend sides would have beat us.

1 Genia
2 Cooper by his standards
3 Rocky for his solid captains knock

Special mention to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) of course and also to Robbie Deans for doing his bit. And Gits please pass the ball more often!
 
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