Foreign recruitment

[exmatelote]

personally i support mr hansen's comments. one of the recent sad demises of rugby has been the lack of the pacific islanders touring at a high profile level. Top level matches against tier one nations would give young, uncapped players like sione lauaki and siti sivivatu exposure to international rugby that they otherwise would not otherwise get. I hope the 5 nations which make up the PI's will take heart that any uncapped player they pick will now not be "poached" by any other team that is say, able to pay them a lot more money than they would otherwise get. That situation was diplorable and went against the ethos of the PI's as a development tool for these much poorer nations. This would mean instead such players would remian eligiable only for the side that went to expense of sending them on tour and really help the development of their rugby. Clearly this new position of the NZRU is a step beyond their idea of a few years ago which was to send these countries retired or cast off ex All Blacks to play for the "countries of their origin" after they had finished with NZ. it's a welcome development and I salute Mr Hansen for taking a stand.

He's clearly just stirring, pissed that his side fell short. Or maybe he is ignorant of the effects of globalization and thinks whinging about it will somehow change it. Or, worse, is some sort of closet right-wing anti immigrant (and emmigrant) goon. Frankly the IRB ought to haul him before a panel to explain this outrageous public critisism of their rules, to which the NZRU is publically committed to. The recent bewilderment across the dutch about Quade's public brainfarts where because such issues ought to be dealt with privately, out of the public. Critisisms of the IRB's eligability rules is a good example.

 

[badabing59]

Hansen likes the mike; he was always the chief protagonist under Henry, who favoured the dry, ambiguous line, where Shag was always on the front foot about the gall of the Wallabies talking themselves up in any way, disruspict, and telling us how they do their talking on the field. He has a deft grasp of irony, hence my earlier post. He knows it's a load of bollocks, but just wants to needle the ARU a wee but.

You've hit the nail on the head. Shag is a wind-up artist, through and through. You've got to admit, he's done a great job of winding up both the media and most Aussies on this forum.
I doubt he'll change even if the AB's lose a few in the future.

 

[Dan54]

Nobody wants to see that I more mean there's a heap of good PI players capped for the ABs and Wallabies (and recently France and England as well). If these blokes are unnamed for a couple of years wouldn't it be great to see them play for their country of ancestry?

Geez there could end up being an awful lot of ex All Blacks and Wallabies end up playing for England or Scotland etc ubder this rule, and could Pocock etc go back and play for SA??

 

[Antony]

Geez there could end up being an awful lot of ex All Blacks and Wallabies end up playing for England or Scotland etc ubder this rule, and could Pocock etc go back and play for SA??

Yeah but the good ones wouldn't, and particularly not for another top tier side. McCaw would never pull on a Scotland jersey, Cooper would never play for NZ, Rathbone would never play for SA. You'd just see temporary/occasional reps going off and strengthening weaker sides, spreading rugby nous and professional standards. It could have a really important influence on upcoming test nations.

I met the player development officer of the Polish rugby union in a pub about a month ago (great bloke - I wanted to send him Scott Allen's videos, but his English was a wee bit scratchy) and he was raving about the depth of ethnic Polish rugby talent in other countries, particularly France. Imagine if they could pick up an ex-test player at some point and play them in their grudge matches against Romania and Belgium, it could do wonders for the game in these countries.

It's an opportunity that we're currently let slip through our fingers, in an attempt to protect national interests that don't really need protecting.

 

[en_force_er]

Geez there could end up being an awful lot of ex All Blacks and Wallabies end up playing for England or Scotland etc ubder this rule, and could Pocock etc go back and play for SA??

Pocock could go and play for Zimbabwe if he fell out of the Wallabies' favour yes. ZIMBABWE! I think that'd be just great.

However, I can't see Pocock falling out of the Wallaby 22 till his retirement and I certainly can't see England/France picking up someone deemed not Wallaby or All Black material 2 years or so after the fact.

 

[Lee Enfield]

I have two points.

1. We will stop selecting kiwi born players when kiwi born players stop moving here and making themselves eligible for the Wallabies. We will gladly give nz all the kiwi born players back, as long as they take all the kiwi citizens living here with them.

2. I would take his comments more seriously if nz weren't guilty of raiding the island nations.

In summing up, nz should get there house in order and fix their country so kiwi citizens stop fleeing nz like rats fleeing from a sinking ship.

 

[en_force_er]

I have two points.

1. We will stop selecting kiwi born players when kiwi born players stop moving here and making themselves eligible for the Wallabies. We will gladly give nz all the kiwi born players back, as long as they take all the kiwi citizens living here with them.

2. I would take his comments more seriously if nz weren't guilty of raiding the island nations.

In summing up, nz should get there house in order and fix their country so kiwi citizens stop fleeing nz like rats fleeing from a sinking ship.

The trouble is, they're all Kiwis until they get offered a chance to play international rep rugby. The amount of rugby playing Aussie born youngsters I meet who support the ABs religiously because of their parents is ASTOUNDING!

 

[Antony]

The trouble is, they're all Kiwis until they get offered a chance to play international rep rugby. The amount of rugby playing Aussie born youngsters I meet who support the ABs religiously because of their parents is ASTOUNDING!

It's easy to back a winner. Ask them which cricket team they support.

 

[Dan54]

Hell en-forc, I used to work with a couple of fellas in NZ who were born in NZ to Welsh parents and they supported Wales, no probs, you do most of your learning from your parents. A large number of kids with Islander's descent still support Samoa etc even though they never even been to Samoa. and I was pulling your leg about Engalnd, SA etc players going back and forth, but do think you have to be careful with these rules, a a two year stand down is pretty flimsy to change countries though I would like something to be sorted for tier 2 countries.
lee Enfield anyone with a smidgeon of intelligence knows that the biggest Islander population in the world is in Auckland, I hardly think the Islands have been raped by NZ, hell Samoa in last WC fielded 15 players born in NZ, I know to a lot of people if a player is darked skinned they are a poach,but not really so.

 

[The Rant]

Here's a Facebook conversation I had with a kiwi mate who i would otherwise consider a very wise and reasonable bloke (and hie random mate).

Kiwi status
I'm thinking that being one of the kiwis that claimed the Wallabies needed more mongrel, I can't complain too much about Higginbotham.
Me: Now Hansens's crying cos oz stole mike harris . the guy couldn't even get a start in s15 over there.
Kiwi: Hansen's point is that you guys should concentrate on blooding your own players instead of taking an easy option. I think you'll find every one of our players learnt their trade in nz.
Me: it's all professional mate. go where there's work and a chance of promotion. Where do you work?
Kiwi: I work where my wife forces me to work. ) (he works in oz)
Kiwi's Mate: It's kiwi dollars behind the development of Kiwi players. That's the point. And it ultimately does no service to the development of Australian rugby to source foreign players . Perhaps there should be a trade fee paid when this happens.
Me: We have the same rules as new zealand for foreign players - there's a very small and strict limit. I can't think of any big signings we have ever made where you could even nearly refer to it as poaching? Any marquee kiwis you can think of turn down the all blacks for the wallabies?? And no Harris is not a marquee - he couldn't even get a run in NZ. How many kiwis are playing in the UK or France - should that be banned cause it wastes kiwi development dollars or should tjose players be forced to pay a share of their earnings back to the nzru? This is descending into stupdity. It's a global market. No person, no team, no organistaion owns the rights to these players or has any right to tell them where to play. Fact is nz has got a lot of great players and the world wants them. Be proud about that.
Kiwi: The fact is, Australia has blooded some of the greatest players the world has seen, you might find that not just kiwis, but Aussies alike are complaining that by snapping up nz players, they're not looking hard enough in their own backyard. You should read your own countries opinions first before judging the winging kiwis https://s-static.AK (Andrew Kellaway).facebook.com/images/blank.gif
Me: only read aussie press and have been a member on aussie rugby blogs for years and trust me they are loaded daily with whinging...but havn't seen that gripe from the average punter yet. We need beers to settle this
Kiwi's mate: Wiile Ofahangaue was a marquee player........james o conner...........quade cooper..........i wont go on
Me: Sigh... Willie O(Tongan) only moved to aus when nz refused him reentry at the border after a schoolboy tour. The other guys moved here as kids with their families.


Is it just me or is a storm in a teacup? I don't see us buying up kiwis left right and centre. I can't think of any stars we've poached when they are already stars and even if we did - it's all professional right?

 

[Bon]

It will blow over,Steve Hanson just had a bad week, loss of his Father, team played below expectations,opposition played above expectations. Sean Maitland has just signed to play for Glasgow,apparently they have been chasing him for two years. With the Scottish grandparents he has he will be snapped up by Scotland. Now that's a shame because he is definately AB material.

 

[the coach]

Under the current eligibility rules Michael Jones and Frank Bunce could never have represented the ABs.
Even though they were born and raised in NZ, they both first represented Western Samoa before being selected for the ABs.
Under the current rules you can only ever represent one country at test level so they would not be eligible.

As previous posts have said, Steve was reacting (in the heat of the moment) to a provocative question from a journo.
I doubt, given his record when coaching Wales of selecting players with dubious qualifications to play for Wales, he really believes this is a significant issue. Although Harris kicked well, Berrick Barnes may have been just as successful had he been available.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is it just me or is a storm in a teacup? I don't see us buying up kiwis left right and centre. I can't think of any stars we've poached when they are already stars and even if we did - it's all professional right?

Your friend's point seems rather stupid as he is basically saying that the Wallabies should not select Harris because he wasn't developed in Australia. That is ridiculous. He qualifies under the IRB rules as an Australian and was selected as such when he was considered good enough to make the Wallabies 22.

It would be a horrible piece of discrimination not to pick/employ someone who was perfectly eligible just because they were born in another country. We have laws against that.

The reality of the rules are that most people will qualify for multiple countries. There aren't a lot of people whose parents, grandparents and themselves were all born in the same country (particularly in Australia and New Zealand) and spent their whole life in that same country.

There is very little active foreign recruitment. Players play where they choose and represent the countries they want to represent. Sometimes players might move to another country they qualify for to seek an opportunity they otherwise wouldn't get, but that is part of life. It's not just the situation in professional sport.

 

[Dan54]

Like doesn't seem to indicate how much I agree with your post Braveheart. and Rant is right, it all a storm in a teacup, even if it has somehow got changed from Mathewson going to Force,to Harris playing for Wallabies, I see no probs what so ever!!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

BH, that nails it. Pretty much discussion over for mine!

 

[the coach]

Pocock could go and play for Zimbabwe if he fell out of the Wallabies' favour yes. ZIMBABWE! I think that'd be just great.

However, I can't see Pocock falling out of the Wallaby 22 till his retirement and I certainly can't see England/France picking up someone deemed not Wallaby or All Black material 2 years or so after the fact.

Well he can't actually as you can now only ever play for one country.
Bad luck to Zimbabwe!

 

[kronic]

New Rebels recruit Jason Woodward will join the ARU Development program. Mike Harris mark 2 http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/7865369/Woodward-sees-funny-side-of-Hansens-comments

 

[Antony]

Damn it.

 

[Sully]

What we're probably doing here is developing a player for new Zealand.

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[James Buchanan]

What we're probably doing here is developing a player for new Zealand.

That's how I read it. But these things are rarely set in stone. He's a 20(?) year old kid who still probably has strong ties to home at this point. Give him some time out in the wider world and we'll see.