Force vs Waratahs - Super Rugby R17 2013

[Lee Grant]

Skelton was immense today

And most days.

If Skeleton can spend this season upping his fitness and shedding some fat, he could be the big cuzzy lock we've been waiting to uncover.

He has lost a bit since school when he used to be 142kgs, but he missed all of last year's rugby because he got a foot injury early in the year and he couldn't do any comprehensive training.

He would be close to 130 kgs now I reckon if he didn't have that injury and that would be about his natural pro size.

I saw his brother Cameron play for CHS on Thursday and he is huge too - and they have a younger brother who is bigger than both of them.

I'm glad he is doing well: he is a lovely bloke and a gentle giant, and I thought that having such a nature would be detrimental to any hopes he had of being a professional player - especially as he was a bit of a gentle giant playing school rugby.

But he proved me wrong. He could be a good thing for the Tahs.

Everybody needs a big Willie.
.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Reminds me of a story from the olden days when Willie John McBride was playing for Ireland and Jean-Luc Condom was lock for France.

At one of the IRE v FRA tests, a banner in the crowd read "Our Willie is bigger then your Condom".

 

[#1 Tah]

I am looking forward to Holloway, McCutcheon, Atkins, Skelton and even Lopeti (despite his defection) standing right up and showing that they have a big future in the game. Realistically not all of them will but those that do will mark themselves as keepers. That alone must be a real incentive to give it everything.

Careful what you wish for Hawko! That performance truly showed the quality of the depth in our squad and the fantastic attitude that the players have

 

[USARugger]

Weight distribution is almost entirely genetically driven when you're talking about adipose fat deposits -there is some seriously infomercial-worthy science being thrown around in this thread. You cannot judge obesity on any level by using one body part as a point of measurement.

 

[Quick Hands]

As I understand it, before Foley was appointed Todd Louden was interviewed by the then Force CEO, but was left in no doubt that it was only intended as a formality to satisfy one of the Directors as the decision on the Head Coach had already been made.

Presumably the same CEO persuaded his Board to give Foley a four year contract, with perhaps the logic being that it would take him that long to master the craft.

One of the real indicators of the malaise in Australian rugby is the fact that a superb young coach like Louden is constantly passed over.
.

And again we see rugby administrators in Australia rising to, or even above, their level of imcompetence.

Not only are excellent young coaches like Todd Louden passed over, so are experienced coaches like Tim Lane. Both these guys would have been much better options for the Force.

I'd be interested to hear exactly what the Force board saw in Foley that no-one else can see. As a coach, the man's limitations are limitless. Do these people watch rugby, or are they so busy networking in the corporate boxes, they watch the highlights on the news.

PS. to Force directors, we have a fantastic CEO over here by the name of Jason Allen, would you like to sign him too? (He used to run motor sport in South Australia)

 

[Pfitzy]

Weight distribution is almost entirely genetically driven when you're talking about adipose fat deposits -there is some seriously infomercial-worthy science being thrown around in this thread. You cannot judge obesity on any level by using one body part as a point of measurement.

I'm not judging obesity - I'm judging whether he has weight to lose. Arnold Schwarzenegger had a simple philosophy: jump up and down in front of the mirror, and anything that jiggles is fat.

Now I'm not suggesting Skelton should aim for a BFP of sub-10, but looking at his game and his legs alone, there is weight to lose. Trim 10kg and he'll be cut, superbly fit, and able to play 80 excellent minutes.

His knees and ankle will thank him.

 

[Braveheart81]

There is no doubt Skelton has weight to lose. He also has weight to put on in muscle.

He's still very much changing from having the body of a big kid playing sport for fun to a man playing professional rugby.

From all reports he's come a long way in the last year in terms of his size and shape and has worked very hard on everything.

He's shown that he has the ability to use his size, has some genuinely good rugby skills (maul disruption being the most obvious) and seems to have pretty good hands.

If he keeps working hard he could be anything. He is genuinely the biggest man on the field which can be a major asset if he can back that up with being skillful and fit.

 

[USARugger]

I'm not judging obesity - I'm judging whether he has weight to lose. Arnold Schwarzenegger had a simple philosophy: jump up and down in front of the mirror, and anything that jiggles is fat.

Now I'm not suggesting Skelton should aim for a BFP of sub-10, but looking at his game and his legs alone, there is weight to lose. Trim 10kg and he'll be cut, superbly fit, and able to play 80 excellent minutes.

His knees and ankle will thank him.

Judging bf% by eye is a fool's errand

He's a lock forward anyway and that puts him 5-6 years out from his physical peak for the position. Using the progress he's already made as a measurement I think he will come good.

 

[Slim 293]

Broken record here........

But Ed Stubbs should be wearing the 13 jersey ahead of these other journeymen the Force are running with..........

 

[RedsHappy]

And again we see rugby administrators in Australia rising to, or even above, their level of imcompetence.

Not only are excellent young coaches like Todd Louden passed over, so are experienced coaches like Tim Lane. Both these guys would have been much better options for the Force.

I'd be interested to hear exactly what the Force board saw in Foley that no-one else can see. As a coach, the man's limitations are limitless. Do these people watch rugby, or are they so busy networking in the corporate boxes, they watch the highlights on the news.

PS. to Force directors, we have a fantastic CEO over here by the name of Jason Allen, would you like to sign him too? (He used to run motor sport in South Australia)

QH, a related point being that until the management calibre and capacity for genuine strategic leadership within the boards of the Australian rugby franchises markedly improves, all the 'Super B', 'Enhanced International & Development Player Quotas' and like initiatives will, sadly, be close to valueless. They're innovations at the lower execution level, not the power and leadership levels where the most change is demonstrably required.

The Force and RugbyWA have had no less than 7 years to build a sporting institution in one of the most affluent cities and States in Australia that could (a) occasionally get itself into the S14/15 top 6 and (b) develop and grow rugby into a solidly based football code in WA. In this period the ARU has continued to pump large $ sums each year into RugbyWA. Yet despite this, it has held RugbyWA accountable for..........absolutely nothing.

One (or all) of many regular coaching, team design or management debacles over these 7 years has seen the RugbyWA board totally fail to meet any credible developmental KPIs for WA rugby. It's often tried to argue that this is some sort of intrinsic problem with WA sports, but that's rubbish when we see, for example, the successful evolution of the AFL and other sports inside and out of WA.

In the early years of the Force's establishment, this team was commanding S14 crowds of 20,000+ per game. Despite all of Foley's ridiculous inferences that his weekend game was more important then putting on the best possible team and playing display vs the BIL (crowd 35,000), the S15 crowd vs the Tahs was a commercially life-threatening 10,000, namely under half the levels of the Force's early years.

 

[Quick Hands]

In the early years of the Force's establishment, this team was commanding S14 crowds of 20,000+ per game. Despite all of Foley's ridiculous inferences that his weekend game was more important then putting on the best possible team and playing display vs the BIL (crowd 35,000), the S15 crowd vs the Tahs was a commercially life-threatening 10,000, namely under half the levels of the Force's early years.

As the Force had no chance of making the finals, I'd like to know on what basis Foley thought that the Waratahs match was more important than the Lions match.

What I think it shows is that not only doesn't he get it in terms of on-field coaching, but he doesn't get it in terms of winning the hearts and minds of the fans either. In fact based on his season at the Waratahs and his season at the Force, the fans don't figure anywhere in his thinking.

It's actually hard to imagine a worse choice for the Force as head coach. I still can't believe that there are people willing to pay this guy to coach. The best money that the Force could spend would be to pay him out now and get someone in who wants to build a positive rugby culture amongst the players and also amongst the public of WA.

 

[Lindommer]

That's the trouble with unbridled ambition: Foley was forwards' coach for the Wallabies and then the Tahs under Hickey. And, to be fair to him, he was a good coach of pigs. But then the green mist of ambition got to him and he reckoned he could do his boss's job; we all know the results these last two years. A classic case of the Peter Principle.

WTF did the brains trust at the Force dispense with Phil Blake's services? If ever a bloke was cut out to be 2IC at a Super side for either defence or backs (it doesn't matter which) it's Phil. He's doing a bloody good job with Manly this year.

 

[The Rant]

Geez that bonus point would have made waratahs final chances 100% more interesting (and not having missed the matchwinning kick in the last 2 games).
I can't understand how bethams try was not given. There was no evidence to suggest he didnt have downward pressure on it when it hit the line and they ruled he wasn't in touch.
That said - they should have been playing for the try 15minutes earlier instead of slotting penalties at 22 and 25. Still good to see there's some depth there.

 

[southsider]

He's shown that he has the ability to use his size, has some genuinely good rugby skills (maul disruption being the most obvious) and seems to have pretty good hands.

I would have to disagree with this particular statement

I thought his maul disruption was great

tackling was decent except he had a very bad miss on eberhson which led to one of the trys...shit happens though we can let one bad read slide

Ruck he gave away 2 possibly more penalties?? and had little to no effect. If he has such a good impact on a maul he should have a similar impact on ruck

Linout was shocking, general ball skills not much better.

Running was good, made good metres but again would expect more from a person of that size, lopeti I think substanically outdid him in metres gained.

overall has promise but was a tad disappointed. Although I must admit I am biased against him. Ive never been a fan of ARU/Tahs picking people because they are big with the hope they will develop skills rather than picking people with talent. Imagine if theyd picked a guy solely on talent and had spent as much time and money developing him as Sydney uni/ARU/Tahs have on skelton!!!

 

[Bruce Ross]

We see what we choose to see.

 

[southsider]

We see what we choose to see.

haha I have no doubt you had a very different perspective on the game!

 

[I like to watch]

overall has promise but was a tad disappointed. Although I must admit I am biased against him. Ive never been a fan of ARU/Tahs picking people because they are big with the hope they will develop skills rather than picking people with talent. Imagine if theyd picked a guy solely on talent and had spent as much time and money developing him as Sydney uni/ARU/Tahs have on skelton!!!

I also share the same bias.
I doubted from the outset that he would ever have the mobility and the work rate necessary to succeed.
If he wasn't MOM yesterday he was very close.
He has definitely proved he can compete at this level.
I am eating my humble pie as I type.......

 

[southsider]

I also share the same bias.
I doubted from the outset that he would ever have the mobility and the work rate necessary to succeed.
If he wasn't MOM yesterday he was very close.
He has definitely proved he can compete at this level.
I am eating my humble pie as I type...

yea I just looked at my first post and it probably came across a tad too harsh, he did have a good game, albeit against a second rate force team. Never seen someone blowing so hard when he came off least it shows he had a crack

 

[Slim 293]

Geez that bonus point would have made waratahs final chances 100% more interesting (and not having missed the matchwinning kick in the last 2 games).
I can't understand how bethams try was not given. There was no evidence to suggest he didnt have downward pressure on it when it hit the line and they ruled he wasn't in touch.
That said - they should have been playing for the try 15minutes earlier instead of slotting penalties at 22 and 25. Still good to see there's some depth there.

Nah, there was no doubt he lost the ball........

In fact, the TMO was able to freeze the vision on the exact moment the lost the ball and you can see quite clearly a visible gap between his hand and the ball........

 

[southsider]

Nah, he clearly lost the ball....

In fact, the TMO was able to freeze the vision on the moment the ball left his hand and you can see quite a visible gap between his hand and the ball....

but he regained it before the ball touched the turf? same basic principle as a player receiving a pass and juggling it, so long as no one else touches the ball its play on). The knockon was called on the actual grounding with the ball, I understand the reasoning for not giving it as it was a close one but I would have awarded it