Force vs Waratahs - Super Rugby R17 2013

[GaffaCHinO]

He said that the players could of been not mentally right because of the selections against the lions

And to you thats an apology for the selections?

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[fatprop]

I just punched his stats into the BMI Calculator Bruce Ross and he comes up as obese. With stats like that it is no wonder Foley never picked him while Tahs coach.

Hey, David Pocock is obese by those BMI calculators and he is my height but 12kg heavier than me

 

[Pfitzy]

Have you actually had a look at the young bloke? He's 135 lean and there would be few players who work as hard as him on his fitness.
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Yes i have, and he doesn't look lean by any definition. Have a look at the weight he carrying around his thighs. That isn't all muscle and men tend to lean down on the limbs before abdomen where most of the weight sits. If he's still chubby around the quads, he's got weight to lose. I'm not saying he doesn't train hard, but he could easily cut another 10 kg in body fat on a grand that size and really take it to the next level.

On a health basis, his joints won't stand up to 135 kg for very long.

And don't be a grumpy old prick about my view of the second half. I said there were goods things, but it was scrappy compared to the first.

 

[I like to watch]

How do you sign a coach who won 4 games with a talented squad in that year?

Statistics!

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Some doctors may contradict me but I think the BMI is the biggest crock o' shite ever.

 

[Pfitzy]

I should also add: I'm an expert on weight loss, having been as high as 130 kg in my life, and now down to around 90kg. I've seen it from the best perspective, and know how it works.

My efforts encouraged several other people to get into it, and their body changes were almost exactly the same

 

[cyclopath]

Some doctors may contradict me but I think the BMI is the biggest crock o' shite ever.

It has been well documented that it does not apply to athletes, especially to mesomorphs. For the general population, it is a reasonably useful tool in some applications, but like most tools, needs to be used intelligently.

 

[ChargerWA]

Hey, David Pocock is obese by those BMI calculators and he is my height but 12kg heavier than me

I was being purposefully obtuse.

 

[Shiggins]

And to you thats an apology for the selections?

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Well he admitted to fucking with the players heads. Lol

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It has been well documented that it does not apply to athletes, especially to mesomorphs. For the general population, it is a reasonably useful tool in some applications, but like most tools, needs to be used intelligently.

Fair enough. I just look at blokes like one of my good mates, who is 194cm (same height as me) and about 110kg, but he's an absolute adonis. Nary an ounce of fat on him. Even at my height and weight (194cm/99kg) I'm considered overweight and yet at my men's health check last year was considered to have elite levels of aerobic fitness.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I just punched his stats into the BMI Calculator Bruce Ross and he comes up as obese. With stats like that it is no wonder Foley never picked him while Tahs coach.

Probably the main reasons why "Foley never picked him while Tahs coach" was that for most of the 2012 season he was only 19 and also that he was only in the NSW National Academy. He didn't join the Waratahs Extended Playing Squad until three months ago.

The Body Mass Index is almost universally regarded as a very flawed measure. In relation to someone like Skelton one problem is that heavily muscled individuals can record a high BMI even if they have very low body fat. Another is that taller people tend to have a calculated BMI uncharacteristically high compared to their actual body fat levels.
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[ChargerWA]

Probably the main reasons why "Foley never picked him while Tahs coach" was that for most of the 2012 season he was only 19 and also that he was only in the NSW National Academy. He didn't join the Waratahs Extended Playing Squad until three months ago.

The Body Mass Index is almost universally regarded as a very flawed measure. In relation to someone like Skelton one problem is that heavily muscled individuals can record a high BMI even if they have very low body fat. Another is that taller people tend to have a calculated BMI uncharacteristically high compared to their actual body fat levels.
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Geez Bruce, if someone was going to recognise sarcasm on here I would have thought it would be you.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Yes i have, and he doesn't look lean by any definition. Have a look at the weight he carrying around his thighs. That isn't all muscle and men tend to lean down on the limbs before abdomen where most of the weight sits. If he's still chubby around the quads, he's got weight to lose.I'm not saying he doesn't train hard, but he could easily cut another 10 kg in body fat on a grand that size and really take it to the next level.

On a health basis, his joints won't stand up to 135 kg for very long.

And don't be a grumpy old prick about my view of the second half. I said there were goods things, but it was scrappy compared to the first.

I should also add: I'm an expert on weight loss, having been as high as 130 kg in my life, and now down to around 90kg.

"Chubby around the quads"!! "Isn't all muscle"??

In losing 31% of your body mass, Pfitzy, how much was due to losing chubbiness around the thighs as opposed to losing it from your belly, pectorals and arse? You could be onto something significant. I am unaware of any studies that have yet been done on thigh obesity in professional rugby players.

As for me being "a grumpy old prick" I'm happy to plead guilty as charged, particularly when I read nonsense comments about players.
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[Bruce Ross]

Geez Bruce, if someone was going to recognise sarcasm on here I would have thought it would be you.

Touché, Charger, you got me.
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[Bruce Ross]

Thank fuck we kept our powder dry for this big game and didn't throw everything at the Lions.

Foley out.

Based on comments from others (Bruce Ross in particular) you guys should give Louden a call... And if I was Louden I'd call the Force to put my hand up.

He would definitely shock the system, however I don't see him relocating out west.

As I understand it, before Foley was appointed Todd Louden was interviewed by the then Force CEO, but was left in no doubt that it was only intended as a formality to satisfy one of the Directors as the decision on the Head Coach had already been made.

Presumably the same CEO persuaded his Board to give Foley a four year contract, with perhaps the logic being that it would take him that long to master the craft.

One of the real indicators of the malaise in Australian rugby is the fact that a superb young coach like Louden is constantly passed over.
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[Pfitzy]

In losing 31% of your body mass, Pfitzy, how much was due to losing chubbiness around the thighs as opposed to losing it from your belly, pectorals and arse?
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There is more weight to lose from the torso of course, because it's a bigger surface area, but until the legs are showing the definition you know the journey is nowhere near complete.

 

[Pfitzy]

One of the real indicators of the malaise in Australian rugby is the fact that a superb young coach like Louden is constantly passed over.
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Politics is the malaise of which you speak

 

[I like to watch]

Well Bruce, your bias is showing.

Cultural fit is an important part of the recruitment process.
Has Louden ever had a 3 or 4 win season?
More importantly,did he ever lose his last 8 consecutive games as a head coach?
Given Foley's Loss/win ratio, they thought he would be a better cultural fit.

And they were right. Last year he had a 4 win season,and the Force had a 3 win season.
This year they have won 3 games.
It's hard to plan for consistency like that.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

As I understand it, before Foley was appointed Todd Louden was interviewed by the then Force CEO, but was left in no doubt that it was only intended as a formality to satisfy one of the Directors as the decision on the Head Coach had already been made.

Presumably the same CEO persuaded his Board to give Foley a four year contract, with perhaps the logic being that it would take him that long to master the craft.

One of the real indicators of the malaise in Australian rugby is the fact that a superb young coach like Louden is constantly passed over.
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Bruce, I have an honest question and sincerely without any particular agenda: why is it that a coach of Louden's calibre has been passed over? There have been three Super rugby jobs on offer in the last 12 months (Force, Rebels and Tahs) and he hasn't cracked any of them. Why would the Rebels (for instance) go for Damien Hill over him? It can't be any anti-Uni bias, otherwise Hill wouldn't have got the job either. You know the bloke and I clearly don't so I'm curious as to why he hasn't been hired by a Super franchise.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bruce, I have an honest question and sincerely without any particular agenda: why is it that a coach of Louden's calibre has been passed over? There have been three Super rugby jobs on offer in the last 12 months (Force, Rebels and Tahs) and he hasn't cracked any of them. Why would the Rebels (for instance) go for Damien Hill over him? It can't be any anti-Uni bias, otherwise Hill wouldn't have got the job either. You know the bloke and I clearly don't so I'm curious as to why he hasn't been hired by a Super franchise.

I honestly have absolutely no idea, TBH. In the case of the Rebels, Damien Hill was appointed to the new Rebels franchise under Rod Macqueen while Louden was still coaching Ricoh in Japan. Now that the Head Coach's position has been thrown open it will be interesting to see whether Louden gets a look in. With regard to the other two franchises you mention not only was he passed over as Head Coach, but he was also knocked back as an assistant coach in both cases after being encouraged to apply.

His only two Super coaching gigs were as attack coach at the Bulls in 2007 and then the Waratahs the next year. In those seasons the Bulls won their first ever Super title and the Waratahs made the Final. But as we have seen, coaching success seems to bear little relation to appointment decisions.
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