Force vs Sharks - 2011R03
- Thread starter PaarlBok
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kiap
Steve Williams (59)
There's sledging and then there's sliming, eh? Yeah, Harrison was a tool, but he admitted the racist remarks, apologised and was suspended forthree S12 matches back in 2005.
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Back to the topic on hand, here's a clip showing the du Plessis incident on Pocock. While he may not have known the guy was pinned, the grapple and twist manoeuvre he used on the neck was very ugly.
[video=youtube;LmXOx84qdCc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmXOx84qdCc&feature=player_detailpage#t=12s[/video]
The collision sports are now being taken to a new level with the popular rise of MMA. These grapple and twist moves are increasingly becoming a part of the game because they are effective at the cleanout. In one-on-one wrestling, the subjected player can at least try to pivot and attempt a counter hold, or submit. But these options are really not there in rugby when there is a pile of players. If a guy is pinned and hyper-extended then serious joint injuries will occur (and have occurred) - not to mention neck or spinal injuries.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
I like to think I'm reasonable enough, and I haven't called for any hangman. I do think it's foul play that is seeping into the game, though, and should be cited.
Is this the bit you are taking issue with? -- "While he may not have known the guy was pinned, the grapple and twist manoeuvre he used on the neck was very ugly."
I'm standing by it.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
He grabbed Pocock around the neck with his right arm, and then, yes, purposely lifted and twisted him, leveraging from the neck, by 180 degrees around and over his own body.
He's not the first guy to use this grapple and twist cleanout technique - although it was an ugly example of it - but it is becoming more prevalant in rugby because it works. These wrestling methods have worked their way into both codes of rugby over many years (and many more in american football). Rugby needs to look at this question.
Conversely, do you believe he slipped and it happened accidentally?. The forces involved to move Pocock as he was moved were intentional, i.e he was trying to twist Pocock. That Pocock's leg was trapped was probably just unfortunate, but it led to the injury. Now that is just bad luck. Deliberately trying to twist and hyperextend a player's neck is not bad luck, but potentially very dangerous, and I agree with Kiap that it shouldn't have a place on the rugby field. I don't think it was a planned tactic (i.e before the game, or even before the ruck) but he performed the manoeuvre with intent. I think that was the gist of Kiap's post, and hardly inflammatory.
JJJ
Vay Wilson (31)
Apparently the reports of a SANZAR investigation were false. Not surprised.
http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/super14/news/2702604.htm
http://www.rugby365.com/tournaments/super14/news/2702604.htm
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Complete and utter rubbish and I suspect you know it.
These wrestling moves are a problem. This was an unfortunate injury and highlights the fact that this needs to be looked at. I don't think du Plessis knew the extent of the injury and what he said was intended as a sledge and no more.
Some people on this thread are getting carried away. Do try and remain rational.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
:lmao: want to learn that wrestling grip around the neck to hurt a knee. :lmao: WWF style. :lmao: Vokket this lot is precious. :nta:
Vokket, sometimes you need to try to read what is actually posted. Much of the comment is about whether grapple / wrestling holds should be used in rugby. It seems pretty obvious the actual injury was incidental, but seems also pretty obvious that such techniques are inherently dangerous. Hyperextension involving the neck / shoulder / chest can lead to horrible injuries. I have seen them.
Sledging that you'd break his neck, in jest or otherwise afterwards is pretty lame too.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
I think you are taking it too seriously. I am quite sure it was a throwaway comment and hardly meant literally. It;s not like he went over to Pocock once he had left the field and said it to him.
Jaysus can everyone lighten up a little? You included Paarl.
Difference of opinion, Blue. If you've just gone the sleeper hold, and the guy is injured, which was clear, then saying that is pretty weak, in my opinion. Of course, you are free to think otherwise, mate.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
I didn't even mention the injury. That could have occurred in any situation that a player has his lower half pinned and I doubt du pleiss knew he was pinned. What I don't doubt is that du pleiss knew he had him by the neck and intentionally twisted him backwards with the leverage of his own body. The resulting injury could have been a lot worse.
Can't believe you don't see a deliberate action maybe your bias is clouding your judgement on this one?
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
And the other thing that is being ignored is that he was off his feet when he did it, out of the play and therefore an automatic penalty advantage. Except that people are being allowed to play on the ground if the ref considers they are "dominant" at the ruck. So the harder you go at it the less likely you are to be pinged - so people are resorting to this sort of tackle to maximise the likelihood that they will not get penalised because they are dominant even though they are off their feet.
I don't think this was the worst example of this you will see over the Super comp, but it wasn't good and I do hope the ref's assessor gave him a bollicking in his report.
nathan
Watty Friend (18)
I'm not taking this one so lightly. JdP has been known for foul play in the past, and as mentioned in previous posts it including the video posts it was clearly intentional...also confirmed by the remark made to Pocock after the incident. I consider this to be worse than Sidey's tackle, which warranted the card (albeit maybe not the colour)
He should have been cited and given a stint on the sidelines. IRB/SANZAR should be looking at laws to combat these MMA moves in the ruck, otherwise there's going to be some serious injuries as mentioned above. I'm surprised the Force didn't make a complaint to SANZAR.
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