Force vs Sharks - 2011R03

[#1 Tah]

It was Tim Horan. That was poor #1 Tah.

I got confused, Marto was being too annoying to think.

 

[Blue]

It was a horrible tackle but a red card that early in a game should never be used. Why not give him a yellow and then a hefty suspension? You can look at it again and assess who really contributed to the dangerous placement of the player.

That is the point. The ref couldn't look again. He saw a spear tackle. Whether assisted or not and a guy was rendered unconscious. I maintain that most refs would have pulled a red no matter what. In hindsight we mostly agree it should have been yellow becuase of the assist but the ref had no hindsight.

Anyway the good thing is that players will be harshly reminded to avoid spear tackles becuase there really is no need for it.

So everyone seems to think it ruined the game yet I bet you all called for a red card for Burger when he gouged against the Lions (and he should have been red cared by the way)? That would also have ruined the spectacle. It's a baseless argument. A red card offense is a red card offense. Having said that we see so few that I think it's a moot discussion anyhow.

 

[Scotty]

Blue,

Are you comparing an eye gouge to a lifting tackle where the guy pretty much landed on his back? Or maybe you are saying that Burger 'accidently' gouged the BIL player?

My first opinion of the tackle was it was a good one and the guy landed on his back. The ref only gave the red due to the result to the tackled player (ie he didn't just go on the initial action). He also gave a yellow to Cummings for a legit tackle, but then missed the wrestling move on Pocock (which was far greater an offense in my opinion) and ignored the retribution shoulder charge to Sidey's head (you know Bakkies would have been suspended for that).

Inconsistencies abound.

 

[Blue]

Blue,

Are you comparing an eye gouge to a lifting tackle where the guy pretty much landed on his back? Or maybe you are saying that Burger 'accidently' gouged the BIL player?

My first opinion of the tackle was it was a good one and the guy landed on his back. The ref only gave the red due to the result to the tackled player (ie he didn't just go on the initial action). He also gave a yellow to Cummings for a legit tackle, but then missed the wrestling move on Pocock (which was far greater an offense in my opinion) and ignored the retribution shoulder charge to Sidey's head (you know Bakkies would have been suspended for that).

Inconsistencies abound.

You're ignoring the point of my post. Don't put words in my mouth and let's keep Bakkies out of it.

By the laws of the game and based on what the REF AND TOUCHIE SAW IN REAL TIME it was a red cardable offense.

Gouging is deliberate. I would like to think that spear wasn't although we will never know will we?

PS I also think Cummings had no intention to use his arms and was swinging a stiff arm. Look again. However, players get away with it all the time though and he was unlucky.

I am merely saying the ref made a call on the spear and it's understandable. We can carry on with the benefit of slow motion replay but then we just miss the point.

 

[whatty]

How is a red card after 10 minutes not enough punishment?

You may have mentioned this on a number of occasisions. In the eye of the law first 2 mins or the 79th min it makes NO difference. Also those calling red card made a difference to the result!

All 27 Points!!

 

[Bruce Ross]

Don't put words in my mouth and let's keep Bakkies out of it.

Fair call, Blue. There are any number of reasons I wouldn't want Bakkies in my mouth.

 

[Blue]

Fair call, Blue. There are any number of reasons I wouldn't want Bakkies in my mouth.

I worry that you even spotted that, but point well made.

 

[Scotty]

You're ignoring the point of my post. Don't put words in my mouth and let's keep Bakkies out of it.

By the laws of the game and based on what the REF AND TOUCHIE SAW IN REAL TIME it was a red cardable offense.

Gouging is deliberate. I would like to think that spear wasn't although we will never know will we?

PS I also think Cummings had no intention to use his arms and was swinging a stiff arm. Look again. However, players get away with it all the time though and he was unlucky.

I am merely saying the ref made a call on the spear and it's understandable. We can carry on with the benefit of slow motion replay but then we just miss the point.

Maybe you missed the point of my post:

My first opinion of the tackle was it was a good one and the guy landed on his back.

My first opinion, being the one I made after I saw it in real time. Now from my tv, I don't have as good a view as the ref, so I suspect he also might have been able to ascertain that the player landed on his back in 'real time'.

I think it highly likely that the injury influenced his decision to go to the red card. Do you disagree?

 

[Elfster]

Anyone know what the story is with the injuries from the game?

 

[Blue]

Maybe you missed the point of my post:

No. Didn't miss anything. I just disagreed. It looked nasty to me.

The injure may or may not have influenced his decision. We won't know unless he tells us. I would say yes though.

 

[Moses]

I thought the red was deserved, in fact I think all spear tackles should get red cards. Sure it took the Force out of the game, deservedly so as one of their Tah rejects could have seriously injured the player.

I also reckon a referee should penalise based on the tackle and not on the damage that it does.

Fortunately Odwa is going to be ok, http://twitter.com/#!/JohnSmit123/status/44227486409687040

Luckily Odwa isn't too bad and feeling ok this morning after a stint in hospital which is good news

 

[chequebalance]

Good to hear he is ok. Any injury that requires a player to be taken off like, that however it happens is not good to see.

 

[qwerty51]

That is the point. The ref couldn't look again. He saw a spear tackle. Whether assisted or not and a guy was rendered unconscious. I maintain that most refs would have pulled a red no matter what. In hindsight we mostly agree it should have been yellow becuase of the assist but the ref had no hindsight.

Anyway the good thing is that players will be harshly reminded to avoid spear tackles becuase there really is no need for it.

So everyone seems to think it ruined the game yet I bet you all called for a red card for Burger when he gouged against the Lions (and he should have been red cared by the way)? That would also have ruined the spectacle. It's a baseless argument. A red card offense is a red card offense. Having said that we see so few that I think it's a moot discussion anyhow.

I just don't agree. Red cards should never be used. They ruin games and no I wouldn't have called for a red card for Burger, yellow plus suspension. You shouldn't be able to decide a game's outcome from something that happened in 1 second and you don't get another look at it. It should be up to the judiciary to decide a suitable punishment.

 

[PaarlBok]

Vokket did Kaplan ref this one? A lot of sad Force and Aus losers here. The Sharks would have beat the Force even if they had 20 men in this game. Get over it and move on. Getting 39 against you on home turf dont deserve any excuses. Sharks leading the pack now and they brooke their Aus hoodoo easily.

Lampies try was brilliant and his overall play on the day was tons better then OConnor.

 

[PaarlBok]

I just don't agree. Red cards should never be used. They ruin games and no I wouldn't have called for a red card for Burger, yellow plus suspension. You shouldn't be able to decide a game's outcome from something that happened in 1 second and you don't get another look at it. It should be up to the judiciary to decide a suitable punishment.

Wonder what happen to Chief? He was the Aussie that wants cards in the game and critizise the refs endlessly last year for not using it. You lot make a lot of kak about the refs, so much so you confuse yourself. Blame your own players not playing to the ref, thats your problem.

 

[cyclopath]

Vokket did Kaplan ref this one? A lot of sad Force and Aus losers here. The Sharks would have beat the Force even if they had 20 men in this game. Get over it and move on. Getting 39 against you on home turf dont deserve any excuses. Sharks leading the pack now and they brooke their Aus hoodoo easily.

Lampies try was brilliant and his overall play on the day was tons better then OConnor.

I don't think anyone is claiming the Force should have won, Oom. Sharks clearly the better team, no question from me. The issues under discussion are whether the red card should have happened (or just yellow) and whether it was reasonable for Jannie du Plessis to try to turn Pocock into a pretzel and apparently threaten to f###ing break his neck next time. Personally, I think the red was probably fair enough from the refs' points of view, and du Plessis ought to have been looked at more closely.

 

[PaarlBok]

I don't think anyone is claiming the Force should have won, Oom. Sharks clearly the better team, no question from me. The issues under discussion are whether the red card should have happened (or just yellow) and whether it was reasonable for Jannie du Plessis to try to turn Pocock into a pretzel and apparently threaten to f###ing break his neck next time. Personally, I think the red was probably fair enough from the refs' points of view, and du Plessis ought to have been looked at more closely.

Honestly go look at the posts during the match, ref this, ref that, you dont want me to qoute them here? The Sharks was way to strong in the forwards for them and thats where you win or lose matches. Good luck to the Force if they keep on blaming the ref and forgot about their real weakness.

 

[cyclopath]

Honestly go look at the posts during the match, ref this, ref that, you dont want me to qoute them here? The Sharks was way to strong in the forwards for them and thats where you win or lose matches. Good luck to the Force if they keep on blaming the ref and forgot about their real weakness.

I did. 28 posts during the game, 4 or 5 mentioned that the ref had buggered the game up with the red card, apart from that none that actually claimed the Force should have won, or that the Sharks should not. That included me saying I thought it maybe shouldn't have been a red, but I can see why it was.
I think you are missing the point a little, Oom.

 

[PaarlBok]

I did. 28 posts during the game, 4 or 5 mentioned that the ref had buggered the game up with the red card, apart from that none that actually claimed the Force should have won, or that the Sharks should not. That included me saying I thought it maybe shouldn't have been a red, but I can see why it was.
I think you are missing the point a little, Oom.

Boet honestly if the boot was on the other foot the same posters would have post here about the Saffer thugs and all that kak we are use to but nevermind. Its done and dusted and luckily it isnt Kaplan that reffed this game otherwise here would have been another petition about the way he reffed. They all make mistakes in games (even Dickenson had his moments on saturday night)and its sad the way posters cut lose about the reffing specially the Aussies. Doesnt matter if he got red/yellow/nothing on the day the Sharks was the better team.

 

[cyclopath]

Boet honestly if the boot was on the other foot the same posters would have post here about the Saffer thugs and all that kak we are use to but nevermind. Its done and dusted and luckily it isnt Kaplan that reffed this game otherwise here would have been another petition about the way he reffed. They all make mistakes in games (even Dickenson had his moments on saturday night)and its sad the way posters cut lose about the reffing specially the Aussies. Doesnt matter if he got red/yellow/nothing on the day the Sharks was the better team.

All fair enough, but NO-ONE IS SAYING THE SHARKS WEREN'T THE BETTER TEAM!!!! Apart from that, you make a reasonable point.