Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[Train Without a Station]

If it was his fault it presents a major issue for him. It if wasn't it presents a major issue for the Wallabies.

 

[Athilnaur]

Like, I suspect, many here, I am a big fan of history. It offers us insights that are very real for the future, and since we were there for them we are often very vested.

Right now my concern is this. When my 3 year old lies to me to get an outcome she wants, there are times she gets away with it. When I find out I have to assess how to deal with it. Let it ride in the interest of silence, or nip it in the bud and tolerate the screaming and ranting until she wears herself out while also setting off the 2 year old and the five year old. And you'd be amazed how long that takes. Worse, it often takes a fair few 'nipping t in the buds' before she works out she needs to moderate her behaviour.

This is all very well when you are dealing with a three year old, but it is pretty sad when it is adults. And to be quite clear, I am talking about agenda wielders far smarter than Beale.

My view is that agenda wielders are hijacking our game. Some of those are players, some of them are in the ARU or state unions. Some of them are media who's reputation is reliant on their sources. Some of them are agents who's day to day living is dependent on taking a cut.

Blaming Ewen or Pulver is a furfy. Sure there might be issues, but the suggestions they caused all this is ridiculous. It is coming from, almost exclusively, NSW agenda wielders who have been agitating ever since Cheika won the Super Rugby and McKenzie had the temerity to build on last years EOYT succcess.

Well I have had a gutful of them. The (tossers) are hijacking our game for their own agenda and it is about time we the long suffering fans told them to get off the bus. And I am not excusing the press from North of the tweed either. Yeah, I saw what you did there last year W Smith, you might have sold some papers, but you and your ilk are also selling our game down the river.

 

[Lindommer]

Fascinating, and illuminating for one inside the tent. I 'spose it's a bit hard for us Tahlanders to look at the behaviour of Tahs Rugby Inc when we're on our side of the boundaries. Some of us (quite a few reside here on G&GR) have fairly sensitive bullshit detectors as well as belonging to local rugby clubs with our fingers on the pulse. Yeah, we've got some dickheads in the NSWRU and at Waratahs Rugby, however I don't think I've detected any nefarious activities by NSW rugby supporters, but, as alluded to earlier, I am inside the blue walls.

If you'd like to expand on your theory, A, please do.

 

[Muglair]

Athilnaur, you missed coaches.

I am in the blue tent too and also think that Cheika actually has a real and executable plan to successfully play attacking football. On the other hand, as my esteemed fellow poster TWAS succinctly pointed out, it took him over 18 months of day to day contact with the Waratahs to really start to nail its execution. Without real cooperation and buy-in from the provincial coaches I cannot see how it will work at a national level.

The current system does not even encourage the S15 coaches to buy in, even if they thought it was in the national interest. Their salary and career revolves totally around getting the best result from the roster their province can afford/attract.

Any NSW agenda wielding cannot really be related to Cheika and S15 except that it may have provided individuals with an opportunity to settle old scores with Link (quite possible). Even then the agenda is not about NSW it will be about individuals. Unsavoury and unhelpful to the cause but then I am sure similarly motivated individuals can be found at all levels of rugby throughout the land.

This is not just a NSW problem. Or you can do my head in and tell me that there is a second set of NSW agenda wielders intent on pulling down Pulver who is the Champion of the first set of NSW agenda wielders. Also possible but tells me that we need to redesign and rebuild, not just get rid of NSW

 

[Train Without a Station]

It's not exactly a NSW rugby thing. Just being the biggest rugby state with the most people able to exert power, that's just where it happens to reside I think.

 

[Muglair]

just get rid of NSW

A bit of silly throwaway at the end. Having the ARU sit in Sydney, while I can't think of an alternative, presumably does not really help all states feel equally engaged.

Maybe if you rebuilt from scratch that might not be the answer. There should be a new thread on an appropriate national structure although I fear Project 2040 could be a realistic title.

 

[Wilson]

It's not exactly a NSW rugby thing. Just being the biggest rugby state with the most people able to exert power, that's just where it happens to reside I think.

Yeah with the ARU having been rotting for some time the fact that it's been based in Sydney means there's a better chance the bad eggs have a NSW background, had it been based in Brisbane the issue would just as likely be certain QLDers who'd entrenched themselves in the system. Does make you wonder if moving the head office away from Sydney would help clean the organisation out. Would have to be paired with other reforms though, or the same problems would arise again.

 

[mxyzptlk]

A rugby coach has to have the confidence of his players. Great teams don't succeed hating their coach. They may not be mates with him but they certainly have to respect him.
.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's not exactly a NSW rugby thing. Just being the biggest rugby state with the most people able to exert power, that's just where it happens to reside I think.

The Fairfax and fox news headquarters and rugby coverage being based in Sydney doesn't help the impression either

 

[Athilnaur]

Fascinating, and illuminating for one inside the tent... ...If you'd like to expand on your theory, A, please do.

Sure.

Growden

On Link's resignation - 'one more to go' 20/10/14
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/244725.html

On Link's needing to go - offside with the players 'poisonous atmosphere' (sound familiar?) 13/10/14
http://www.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/story/243977.html

On Argentina - goes back to Dublin 5/10/14, Patston issues precede Kutley incident
http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/243385.html

Tahs offside over Skelton
25/9/14
http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/rugby/story/242423.html

Timely cuddle from the coach (for Beale)
http://www.espnscrum.com/the-rugby-championship-2014/rugby/story/236805.html

Andrew Webster (SMH)

Wallabies mess will only be fixed if Cheika can work alongside Pulver
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...rk-alongside-bill-pulver-20141020-118wgk.html

Beale claims Patston confronted him about a bill during the game
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...out-an-unpaid-hotel-bill-20141016-1171m7.html

Beale is not rugby's biggest problem (photo of McKenzie looking stern)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...n-rugbys-biggest-problem-20141013-115aan.html


Robinson (SMH)
Cheika frontrunner but questions remain at ARU 19/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...-questions-remain-at-aru-20141019-118bra.html

Pulver regrets giving McKenzie full rein 19/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...-own-staff-was-a-mistake-20141019-118g43.html

Hooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have every right to defend Beale (photo of McKenzie looking stern)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...d-teammate-kurtley-beale-20141016-116sxs.html

Beale a key factor in Folau's future 16/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...rael-folaus-rugby-future-20141016-1179oz.html

waratahs may not be able to sign Beale 15/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...le-to-sign-kurtley-beale-20141015-116ly0.html

McKenzie defiant on Team Unity: doesn't care if players like him 14/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...-questions-on-team-unity-20141014-1161i0.html

Patston was emboiled in a spiderbite lawsuit before ARU (Footage of McKenzie, captioned McKenzie defends 'heavily medicated' staffer 14/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...wsuit-before-joining-aru-20141013-115jb6.html

Beale staying positive - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 13/10/14 (Photo AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) captioned 'veteran leadership')
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...e-says-adam-ashleycooper-20141013-115bz7.html

McKenzie knew about text months ago (Beale's manager) 11/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...s-kurtley-beales-manager-20141010-114jo9.html

Beale sage shows discontent in Wallabies camp 9/10/14 (photo of McKenzie looking stern)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...ontent-in-wallabies-camp-20141009-113xqz.html

Beale saved by Player Power 3/10/14
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/a...-by-wallaby-player-power-20141003-10pmtd.html

 

[Richo]

I'm a big fan of the NFL. My team is the 49ers. Their coach, Jim Harbaugh, is one of the best in the NFL and has led the team to three straight championship games (the game to get to the Super Bowl) and one Super Bowl (which they lost). For the last year plus, he's been the subject of constant speculation due to supposed player unrest and a tense relationship with the team's general manager. Rarely have I read that the players should simply accept whatever he wants and do whatever they are told.

Coaches across American sports are expected to maintain the respect and loyalty of their locker rooms -- not their love, mind you, just their willingness to listen and follow the game plan. This is perhaps the biggest part of any coach's job. When they lose it, for whatever reason, they are held accountable. Many are fired. In fact, a few NFL coaches lost their jobs this offseason for exactly that reason.

I don't have any insight into McKenzie's situation with the Wallaby players. But I do think it's rather strange thing to blame the players, or even a chunk of the players (these so-called 'factions,' which is a really stupid name clearly designed to dramatise the situation) if he did indeed lose the locker room. It's his job to not allow that to happen, IMO, and if it did, for whatever reason, it makes sense that he would be responsible.

I wanted to see Link succeed. I thought he was the right man for the job and that he could lead us to a victory in the World Cup. I'm genuinely sad to see him go, and I'm gutted that for him that he hasn't been able to realise what must surely have been a dream of coaching the team into a RWC.

But the reflexive position for many seems to be that Link could not possibly have been responsible for what has happened. For me, that's a bridge too far. Losing the locker room, if that's what happened, is always to some extent the coach's problem -- even if (and, again, we don't know this) some players really were stirring shit against him.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But Richo, how many previously successful coaches have to "lose the players" before you wonder whether it might not be the coaches?

I remember reading an article when Connolly was not renewed and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was talking about "the shackles being off" under Robbie.

So knuckles lost them? Fair enough, bit out touch by the time he took the role perhaps.

Robbie lost them? Perhaps it was a cultural thing or perhaps he'd been in the role for too long.

Now Link has lost them? Just get another coach I guess. That'll sort it.

Funny thing is the players will respect the coach SIGNIFICANTLY more when they know the board will back the coach over the players, because they know they can't just ride him out and they can't afford to throw their career away.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the point is that it happens to most coaches at the top level at some point in time.

I guess the difference between each example is the severity of the breakdown and the tolerance of the powerbrokers and public opinion.

 

[Athilnaur]

To be very very clear, my point is NOT to say everyone in NSW is causing the mudslinging.

My point is that the media articles make it quite clear factions in NSW rugby are pushing the wheelarrow very hard. We saw exactly the same thing with Quadegate in media terms.

Our game is being held to ransom by suits and politicos, agents and insiders selling crack to junky journos who stir the pot and profit from the ensuing frenzy while our game suffers. It is about time we held them all to account. Say no to these peddlers in each and every way we can. Root them out wherever we can, and send them on their way. Ideally after having seized their silver.

And yes that might mean letting some key player go if they can't do basic things like treat other humans with decency or respect their team mates.

 

[No4918]

How is it poosible for Growden to write a whole article about the Tahs contingent being upset Skelton was told to play NRC for fitness? How is it possible Cheika and the board member were so upset they went on record? No wonder the game is up to shit. As long as the politics is in the game it will struggle.

I have read on here that the NZRU do there contracting and run the game a bit differently, dont remember exactly how. Is the way they do things superior?

 

[Train Without a Station]

That's one comment I can't stand. Who is Cheika to make snide remarks about the wallaby set up on this matter when he was using Skelton as a reserve lock.

He had the perfect reason to bring him into the team when Dennis was injured but chose to keep a 194cm lock and pick Hoiles who had been out of the game for close to 3 years at 6

 

[Richo]

But Richo, how many previously successful coaches have to "lose the players" before you wonder whether it might not be the coaches?

I remember reading an article when Connolly was not renewed and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was talking about "the shackles being off" under Robbie.

So knuckles lost them? Fair enough, bit out touch by the time he took the role perhaps.

Robbie lost them? Perhaps it was a cultural thing or perhaps he'd been in the role for too long.

Now Link has lost them? Just get another coach I guess. That'll sort it.

Funny thing is the players will respect the coach SIGNIFICANTLY more when they know the board will back the coach over the players, because they know they can't just ride him out and they can't afford to throw their career away.

Mostly my response would be the same as BH's. It's rare for coaches to last a long time with teams in any sport. It takes a special combination of coach, organisation and player stability. By it's very nature, a representative team is not going to have the same coach for a long time precisely because there is so much player turnover and thus institutional instability. Not to mention that results matter even more when windows are short and scrutiny high.

But I'm also NOT denying there are problems with player egos in the Wallaby set-up. That seems likely , and I'd guess it's systemic / cultural rather than individual. Remember that the most high profile player issue with Deans was Quade, who hasn't been around the set-up much at all under McKenzie. Our last coach to leave with his reputation intact was Rod MacQueen, and not coincidentally he won a RWC and a Lions tour. He also had players who'd started their careers in the amateur era or the early days of professionalism, which might have suited his managerial approach quite well.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If it was an isolated incident you wouldn't think anything of it. But in the last decade we've had Nucifora, Mooney, Mitchell, Friend and Deans all go in addition to Link pulling the pin. When some of this dates back to when there were only 3 teams it's a high number.

I hate the thought of rugby going the same way as the NRL when the players are running the asylum. The more coaches that get punted due to "losing the players" the more it happens because it vindicates the players' actions.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's part and parcel of professional sport.

There's a reason the players are guaranteed 24% of the income of the game. They're an integral part of it and by far the hardest to replace.

The thinking that a coach loses the dressing room because the players decide it should happen is completely false in my opinion. If it was that simple it would be just as easy to create a champion team.

 

[Train Without a Station]

That's exactly what happens. The players decide it should happen.

Now if they thought the board would back the coach to the hilt, and any disruptive behaviour would see them no longer selected, how many wouldn't buy into what the coach is doing?

Players, like all people, push as far as they can get away with it.