England v Australia

[BDA]

1. Slipper
2. Hanson (Fainga'a if he's fit)
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Carter
6. Jones
7. Hooper
8. McCalman
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Speight
12. To'omua
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Tomane
15. Folau

16. Mann-Rea
17. Robinson
18. Alexander
19. Horwill
20. Skelton
21. Hodgson
22. Genia
23. Horne

I think the team is pretty straight forward this week.
-AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in for Kuridrani, a slight downgrade but AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a quality 13 nonetheless.
- I'd actually keep Jones. I was cursing his name on Sunday morning during the game as I thought he had a bit of a shocker. Made a few rookie mistakes and was penalised a few times for losing his composure. However his work rate appeared pretty good and he seemed to move bodies when he wanted to. Big guy that looks like he could be handy once he finds his feet at test level. I think he deserves another shot. Nothing to lose at this point and I really cant see McMahon or Shatz making the world cup squad so we might as well give Jones another cap.
- I'd play a 6/2 bench.
- I'd use Horwill as the back up lock for his set piece strength, but I'd still carry Skelton as insurance. If we need to go all out attack in the final 10-15 minutes, I want the option of bringing him on. I dont hate Querty's idea of playing Skelton at 6 to avoid the scrum. It's at least an option.
-Horne to cover the backs

 

[Gillys_ghost]

Sorry, ive obviously missed the news, but what happened to Fainga'a.

 

[S120]

Yeh what's with the non-selection of Fainga'a? Unless he's injured, he's a must in this side atm. His tour has been fantastic.

 

[troxler]

I cant see where this game is on Ch 10?? surely they are still showing it!.

 

[KOB1987]

No idea either, Saia and mccalman are the undroppables..

 

[S120]

No idea either, Saia and mccalman are the undroppables..

Yep. Two players who about 4 years ago I really, really liked and had high hopes for and then thought I was completely done with 2 years ago and now they're the two of the most consistent forwards we have. Obviously they are in the side due to injuries but they've been great recently.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sorry, ive obviously missed the news, but what happened to Fainga'a.

Injured. Not sure with what,

 

[KOB1987]

Yep. Two players who about 4 years ago I really, really liked and had high hopes for and then thought I was completely done with 2 years ago and now they're the two of the most consistent forwards we have. Obviously they are in the side due to injuries but they've been great recently.

Palu will struggle to get his spot back, if not just for the fact that big dog is available every week and then never let's us down..Saia might have a bit more of a battle if one or both of TPN and Moore lasts to the RWC but I doubt both will and even if they do I think 16 is worst case for Saia..

 

[BDA]

Yeh what's with the non-selection of Fainga'a? Unless he's injured, he's a must in this side atm. His tour has been fantastic.

Sorry yeh. I had understood he was under an injury cloud. If he's fit he's a certain starter

 

[BDA]

Hopefully all of Moore, TPN and Fainga'a are fit for the WC. Would be an interesting battle between them. Moore is the best over 80 minutes. I'd probably still lean towards TPN on the bench just for his strength in the scrum.

 

[KOB1987]

Hopefully all of Moore, TPN and Fainga'a are fit for the WC. Would be an interesting battle between them. Moore is the best over 80 minutes. I'd probably still lean towards TPN on the bench just for his strength in the scrum.

Yes at 100% I agree with you, I wasn't clear with my inference that I doubt both will return to 100% though, let alone last to RWC..especially Moore, knee reco's are bad shit..more than happy to be proven wrong though


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[Groucho]

Well that rules Bob out as a "guru"

If world cup winning coaches always agreed with people on the Internet, there'd be no need for them.

 

[Forcefield]

Palu will struggle to get his spot back, if not just for the fact that big dog is available every week and then never let's us down..Saia might have a bit more of a battle if one or both of TPN and Moore lasts to the RWC but I doubt both will and even if they do I think 16 is worst case for Saia..

That's a pretty contentious call (but I like it). We don't have much by way of impact players coming from the bench as the past season has shown. Palu coming on for 20-30 minutes would be epic. McCalman is a much better player to have playing 60-80 and if injury struck could move to 6 fairly easily or 7 in dire straits. I guess it depends on who is at 6. I have always said that, with Hooper at 7, Fardy/Palu works and I hope Jones/McCalman will too.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If world cup winning coaches always agreed with people on the Internet, there'd be no need for them.

Put one of the poorest defenders and weakest players in contact in the most difficult defensive position in the backline and the position used to crash the ball over the gain line? Sounds perfectly reasonable.

 

[KOB1987]

Doesn't bob advocate Beale on the wing? Most know I agree that's where he should play..

As was discussed last night, any suggestion that Beale will be picked at 13 is a context error by a journo whereby some think that with kuridrani out Beale may get a start..but if he does it won't be at 13

The article I read on fox said something like 'with kuridrani injured Beale may get a shock call up into the starting side. More likely though is that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) will be moved to outside centre and Tomane or Horne will get a recall'.

That's a more accurate synopsis and the first part is probably what confused the league/soccer/darts writer in the first place


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[Groucho]

Put one of the poorest defenders and weakest players in contact in the most difficult defensive position in the backline and the position used to crash the ball over the gain line? Sounds perfectly reasonable.

As always with Dwyer, it's worth paying attention to the content of his arguments.

Older posters may remember this, but when he was advocating Beale at 13, it was part of a wider system of advocating an elusive, playmaking 13 and a crash-ball 12, which he described as reversing the traditional center roles. At the time, this was ridiculed because it was the opposite of what was then in vogue, but soon many international teams were playing precisely that style. Strangely, it never caught on in Australia. Instead we moved towards the New Zealand second-five configuration and have pretty much stayed there since.

Internet posters come and go, but Dwyer (heart attacks notwithstanding) is still here, and is still making well-considered statements about how the game can be played. If his ideas are different to ours, then perhaps that's an opportunity for us to learn something.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not advocating putting Beale at 13. I'm discussing Dwyer's former advocacy of it. Like KOB says, Dwyer's current thinking is to put him on the wing, and that's an argument I agree with.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Older posters may remember this, but when he was advocating Beale at 13, it was part of a wider system of advocating an elusive, playmaking 13 and a crash-ball 12, which he described as reversing the traditional center roles. At the time, this was ridiculed because it was the opposite of what was then in vogue, but soon many international teams were playing precisely that style. Strangely, it never caught on in Australia. Instead we moved towards the New Zealand second-five configuration and have pretty much stayed there since.

It's certainly something I advocate too, but with the difference being that I'm not fussed about the numbers on the players backs. The important thing is to have that balance between the rapier and the sledgehammer. As you say, the distributor and the crasher. So long as both roles are covered, you can interchange them positionally to a degree, with the caveat that outside centre is very tough defensively and must have a player who is a strong tackler and more importantly is good in terms of positional play.

Where I part company with Bob is his insistence on our ideal centre combination being TK at 12 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13. I cannot agree with that. Where is the ball distribution and elusiveness going to come from in that pairing? They're both very fine players, but they're covering the same position in my view.

 

[Groucho]

It's certainly something I advocate too, but with the difference being that I'm not fussed about the numbers on the players backs. The important thing is to have that balance between the rapier and the sledgehammer. As you say, the distributor and the crasher. So long as both roles are covered, you can interchange them positionally to a degree, with the caveat that outside centre is very tough defensively and must have a player who is a strong tackler and more importantly is good in terms of positional play.

That's a fair point: numbers on backs mean relatively little in Australian rugby currently, perhaps less so than any other national team. It's about channels now with players running in several of them. I guess what Dwyer means with Kuridrani is that he wants the sledgehammer running more at the defensive 10-12 channel, and the rapier running more in the wider channels. That's probably more papaltable to fans than actually putting a 12 on Kuridrani's back. It also implies the second playmaker playing somewhere other than in the centers.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I can certainly live with that, but would question the wisdom of TK and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the context of getting the ball wide and at pace. Neither of those guys are renowned passers of the ball.

 

[Groucho]

I can certainly live with that, but would question the wisdom of TK and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in the context of getting the ball wide and at pace. Neither of those guys are renowned passers of the ball.

I agree. The 13 needs to be a good ball player. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) isn't.