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Dwyer speaks truth

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Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I enjoyed Dwyer's gig on the Rugby Club. I like fellows like Mark Ella and him on the show because they are not company men as some of the others are. I'd like to see Campo on there to and maybe Gary Ella and it's a pity that Dan Crowley works for another channel. Maybe a Kiwi toe cutter would be good value too.

Dwyer's criticism of the players is not far off the mark though he's a bit harsh on Saia Fainga'a who has proved that he is a good 3rd string hooker for Oz (but why he has started in front of Moore is still puzzling). He has a lot of ticker and we have seen him play through pain (with Moore resting on the bench mind you.)

I've talked about A. Finger's errors in Christchurch at length. He will come good one day but there's no evidence to say Dwyer is wrong about his not being ready to start in the RWC, which was Dwyer's point - and he made it originally before Christchurch IIRR.

As for his other comments about Brown, JOC (James O'Connor), Ma'afu, Mumm (as a starting lock, I suppose), and there may be some others I have forgotten about, we have all spoken about the shortcomings of these players ourselves.

We have to realise that we don't have the same quality pool of players that we had in 1999 or 1991. We are more like Oz in 1995 when we had so many injured players at the start of the RWC that John Eales said that one time the dressing room looked like it was in a war zone - and that was before the game. At least we have a lot injuries a year before the RWC, not in the same year.

We didn't have the depth to cover for injuries then and we don't have it now and for me that has been a huge disappointment of the professional era for Wallaby rugby.

Looking at the players that Dwyer criticised, and also at who is not available now, but should be healthy for the RWC 1st XV: Ioane will replace JOC (James O'Connor) (and if KB (Kurtley Beale) keeps going OK, Rabbit won't displace him at fullback.)

A. Finger will be replaced by Gits in the next test match, since Cooper will be available. [Let's not go through a Gits diatribe again please.]

Brown will be replaced by Palu, Horwill will be in for Mumm, Alexander will play THP instead of Ma'afu. Moore or TPN will be the starting hooker and not S. Finger.

It all looks rosy, but our bench won't be as good as other top nations and the other thing to consider is that we could even have more injuries next year than we do now. The only position where we have good depth is at hooker - if the 3 guys are healthy.

PS - I don't mind J.Paul's sniggering - sometimes you need a jester. There's a bit of him in all of us.
 

TheRiddler

Dave Cowper (27)
Lee, I think we are all hoping (praying) for that. However, we also have to face the possibility that not all the returning players you mention above will actually be available for the RWC. As we have seen this year, the Wobblies have suffered a very unkind injury run. Who is to say that wont continue next year. IIRC Robinson, TPN and Palu all suffered double injuries this season, will they ever be right again? What happens if another load of players (Elsom, Sharpe, QC (Quade Cooper) etc) suffer injuries next season? The second string players could all of a sudden become very important, especially with their albeit limited test match experience gained this year.
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
Regarding Jeremy Paul, speak for yourself Lee. I pride myself that there is none of him in myself.

Dwyer has some good things to say but it is a shame you have to burn so much energy digging it out of all the bullshit in between.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
You're right Riddler though I did say "we could even have more injuries next year than we do now." I must admit that there are a lot of words in my posts so things are hard to spot. If things do go our way on injuries we have a valid chance, but if they don't, we won't.

If the RWC started next month we would still get to the Q/Finals but that would be about it.


Ruggo, you a very harsh on Dwyer, the creator of one of the most famous rugby quotes: "Kick it to the shit house."

Sheer poetry.
 
U

Upright

Guest
You're right Riddler though I did say "we could even have more injuries next year than we do now." I must admit that there are a lot of words in my posts so things are hard to spot. If things do go our way on injuries we have a valid chance, but if they don't, we won't.

If the RWC started next month we would still get to the Q/Finals but that would be about it.


Ruggo, you a very harsh on Dwyer, the creator of one of the most famous rugby quotes: "Kick it to the shit house."

Sheer poetry.
By way of gauging depth a good litmus test is be to pick a world XV and then a second XV and see how many of the Wallabies would gain a spot in either team. In the glory days we would have a significant number in the first team, at present we would be struggling to have many in either team. Dwyer was spot on and it is insights like his which I am sure Deans recognises as well but obviously can't say.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Interesting that Bob sees Beale at 13. I had been thinking the same thing but was trying to talk myself out of it.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Well, that and 9 are the only two spots he hasn't played yet. I guess they're next.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Interesting that Bob sees Beale at 13. I had been thinking the same thing but was trying to talk myself out of it.

I never even thought of it to be honest. I always saw him at 15 and moving to 10 with maturity. Dwyer made a very good case though with his analysis of support play and vision. The only aspect he would have to do a lot of work on his the defensive requirements specific to 13 and improving his tackle completion rate and effectiveness.

In any case there is another option at 13 apart from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Beale and that would be McAbe. From my recollection he didn't drop a tackle all year in the S14, has very good footwork and pace off the mark, and 13 is his natural position. That would free up AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to play on the wing as a second roving Fullback with Beale at 15 similar to how Campo used to with both Marty Roebuck and Greg Martin.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Does anybody else think that Nick Cummins is destined to play 13?

Needs a haircut.
No, seriously, a mullet like that is just wrong.
But apart from that vital factor, I am sure he could probably do it. I don't think he would be top of the tree in Aus though.
 

Viking

Mark Ella (57)
I never even thought of it to be honest. I always saw him at 15 and moving to 10 with maturity. Dwyer made a very good case though with his analysis of support play and vision. The only aspect he would have to do a lot of work on his the defensive requirements specific to 13 and improving his tackle completion rate and effectiveness.

In any case there is another option at 13 apart from AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or Beale and that would be McAbe. From my recollection he didn't drop a tackle all year in the S14, has very good footwork and pace off the mark, and 13 is his natural position. That would free up AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to play on the wing as a second roving Fullback with Beale at 15 similar to how Campo used to with both Marty Roebuck and Greg Martin.

McCabe at 13 doesnt sound too bad at all. He solid in the tackle, runs straight n hard. Sounds good to me. Hope he can pass n offload too.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
McCabe at 13 doesnt sound too bad at all. He solid in the tackle, runs straight n hard. Sounds good to me. Hope he can pass n offload too.

Bit vague though, Seb. Hynes is all that, so is Tom Carter, and probably others. There is more to a 13 - defensively it is a very tough position, and we have no idea how Cummins, McCabe or anyone else will handle that aspect, or indeed Ioane at international level.
I hope we don't move to a one-dimensional big lump at 13 just because they run straight and hard (and I am not suggesting you want that either). Our really good 13s have done so much more. That's why I think Chambers is interesting.
And by the way, I like McCabe very much as a player, and if he proves me wrong, I'll be happy.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
13 is [McCabe's] natural position.

You could be right but I've seen him a few times in most back line positions, including flyhalf, and I think that fullback is his best spot.

You are spot on in your other comments including the need to master defensive requirements at 13 as apart from just the tackling; in that respect I think McCabe will be better in the position than Beale. Like AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) he has a multi-layered rugby brain.

Not to the point but I thought that Ioane didn't satisfy the defensive requirements at 13 when he played there, as good a tackler as he was.

But let's not think of KB (Kurtley Beale) or McCabe there for Oz until they have some stints in the position for their S15 teams.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Cummins is a 13. That's where he's always played. Its just the Farce stuck him on the wing. He's handy too.

Will he be played at 13 over west now that Cross has crabbed over east to the Tahs? Could be a big opportunity for him.
 
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