Do we really need a playmaker @ 12?

[Crow]

KB (Kurtley Beale) to 10
A Fainga'a to 13
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to 15

Maybe?

I really like KB (Kurtley Beale) @ 15, the relative freedom of the position allows him to inject himself as required and has been quite successful this year.
So who to 10? I'd consider punting on JOC (James O'Connor), if limited to the current touring squad and leaving AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) in 13. I think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) works better with BB.

 

[Joe Blow]

Morty's previous efforts at 12 have been notable for their complete lack of success.

Yes, outside Giteau.
He could be just the guy to bring some steel back to the Wallaby midfield and help to pave over some of the cracks in QCs defense.
He's not getting any quicker but he does know how to get across the advantage line. With Ioane or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 13 it could be
just what we need.

 

[DPK]

It may be pie in the sky stuff, by bloody hell it would be good to see Morty and his anti-kiwi force field back in action.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I'd love to see a fit and firing Morty as well, but I think his time has passed. The way he plays is very hard on his body and I think the old body has had enough unfortunately. Still, he has a S15 contract with Melbourne next year, so you never know.

 

[aussie1st]

I know what you mean about having a significant amount of playmakers but I would prefer to see JOC (James O'Connor) moved to inside and another hard runner (finisher) given his wing spot. If you had Ioane, Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the hard runners, QC (Quade Cooper), KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) as the playmakers you have a very well balanced team.

9 Genia
10 QC (Quade Cooper)
11 Mitchell
12 JOC (James O'Connor)
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Ioane
15 KB (Kurtley Beale)

I like the look of that side. JOC (James O'Connor) definitely shouldn't be on the wing. Could go either way on him or Barnes, but with our goal kicking woes sticking with one goal kicker would mean JOC (James O'Connor) keeping the job and hence needed a spot in the side.

 

[Bullrush]

How bad does QC (Quade Cooper)'s tackling have to be before he can't be considered a starter?

I think JOC (James O'Connor) missed as many tackles as QC (Quade Cooper) did on the weekend....that wouldn't have you a little bit concerned?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I have concerns over QC (Quade Cooper)'s tackling, but I guess we have to weigh up the total value to the team versus his defence. He had a shocker on the weekend and it won't be the last time it happens, he's a bit mercurial. I personally think we can't win the RWC without his attacking play, but we need someone to help him out in defence and or that hoary old chestnut of him taking a bit of personal responsibility for it.

 

[Proud Pig]

Unless you have a 12 with a strong passing game you may as well forget about attacking wingers and play defensive wingers there instead as it would rarely see the wingers in attack.
If you play with straight up runners at 12 and 13 then the Wallabies should play Turner and Hynes on the wings.
You end up with two strong tacklers who are great under the high ball but don't really have a great attacking game.

 

[Bullrush]

I have concerns over QC (Quade Cooper)'s tackling, but I guess we have to weigh up the total value to the team versus his defence. He had a shocker on the weekend and it won't be the last time it happens, he's a bit mercurial. I personally think we can't win the RWC without his attacking play, but we need someone to help him out in defence and or that hoary old chestnut of him taking a bit of personal responsibility for it.

It wasn't the first time it's happened either. Every week so far has been pretty abysmal on the tackle front.

From an AB supporter's POV, I hope they persist with QC (Quade Cooper).

For all the talk about Cooper being the best attacking fly-half in the world, he is yet to feature on anyone's Top 3 MOTM nominations on the forum. I don't know if anyone has even really put him up in their Top 5. If you're not gonna tackle then surely your attack HAS to be good enough to dominate games. I don't believe he has dominated any game at all on this EOYT and I think the ABs will continue to talk him up knowing that in reality, they can contain him while exploiting his obvious frailties.

Much like what has happened with Genia this year.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

It's a good point you made, but think about this also: QC (Quade Cooper) was directly involved in 3 of the 4 Wallaby tries scored in HK, two of them from that long flat pass that he has perfected. Nobody in the Australian squad is even remotely capable of that kind of passing game. I'm happy for our 5/8 to not be in the top three players every week if it means that a, they are steering the team around the park effectively and b, bringing other players into the game. I think Quade does both of those things quite well, the weekend notwithstanding.

 

[Scotty]

It wasn't the first time it's happened either. Every week so far has been pretty abysmal on the tackle front.

From an AB supporter's POV, I hope they persist with QC (Quade Cooper).

For all the talk about Cooper being the best attacking fly-half in the world, he is yet to feature on anyone's Top 3 MOTM nominations on the forum. I don't know if anyone has even really put him up in their Top 5. If you're not gonna tackle then surely your attack HAS to be good enough to dominate games. I don't believe he has dominated any game at all on this EOYT and I think the ABs will continue to talk him up knowing that in reality, they can contain him while exploiting his obvious frailties.

Much like what has happened with Genia this year.

He was in plenty of top 3s in June.

 

[Bullrush]

He was in plenty of top 3s in June.

He played one good game against the Boks (who have been horrible this year). IMO he's over-rated. The supposedly amazing passes that apparently no-one else can do - I would expect from most top fly halves at international level.

Put him up against the truly great 1st-fives of our time and he comes up well short.

Just my opinion.

 

[Richo]

Put him up against the truly great 1st-fives of our time and he comes up well short.

I don't think anyone here disputes that QC (Quade Cooper) is a work-in-progress, including on attack. But he throws a lot of passes effortlessly that you simply don't see from other 5/8s, including Carter. It's not just the long flat ones but also the inside balls, the pin-point no-look flicks, and everything else.

IMO, the biggest testament to how dangerous QC (Quade Cooper) is can be found in the defensive game plans of our opposition.

 

[JJJ]

The problem with some of the passes Quade throws is they're so amazing that they surprise the intended recipient just as much as the opposition. Which results in a knock-on as often as not.

 

[Torn Hammy]

Inside centres, like props are born not manufactured.

The two main assets they need are an ability to see holes and the speed to get through them. I watch a lot of football and see very few 12s that run at holes.

The modern game also demands that they are tall and strong as they get smashed by loose forwards 25% of the time. They need to have the physical presence to crash over the advantage line and retain possession and also be comfortable tackling the likes of Bakkies.

I don't think we have anyone like this in Australia as we traditionally pick smaller fast stepping boys at junior level. I saw a lot of GPS and CAS and really only saw one kid at 12 that fitted the modern profile.

IMO we should forget about JOC (James O'Connor), Barnes and think Nonu and SBW. And please don't say "he might make a good 12" unless you are referring to 10 year olds. If you do, you have never played there.

 

[Groucho]

The problem with some of the passes Quade throws is they're so amazing that they surprise the intended recipient just as much as the opposition. Which results in a knock-on as often as not.

Only the short ones, and with decreasing frequency as players learn Quade's style.

The long ones go right to the chest of the receiver and stick. I disagree with Bullrush: QC (Quade Cooper) has the best long pass in the game.

 

[DPK]

I love Quade's long passing game, but I get this eerie feeling we'll see our own version of Spencer's pass to set up Morty for his try in the 2003 SF...

 

[Nusadan]

How bad does QC (Quade Cooper)'s tackling have to be before he can't be considered a starter?

I think JOC (James O'Connor) missed as many tackles as QC (Quade Cooper) did on the weekend....that wouldn't have you a little bit concerned?

Now we know what happened sadly, do you think JOC (James O'Connor) had his mind on other things...seeing as he wore a black armband? and affected his goal kicking as well?

 

[disco]

Morty's previous efforts at 12 have been notable for their complete lack of success.

Again with Giteau at 10 not Quade, I want to see a Mortlock type 12 with Quade at 10.

 

[Lindommer]

Now we know what happened sadly, do you think JOC (James O'Connor) had his mind on other things...seeing as he wore a black armband? and affected his goal kicking as well?

Probably right. Which makes Elsom's decision to go for those long-range penalties look very poor. And if Dingo knew he should've relieved him the kicking duties before the match started.