Do we really need a playmaker @ 12?

[disco]

With Qwade, Kurtley, JOC (James O'Connor) & Genia in the backline do we really need a ball player at 12?

I'm starting to think that a centre combo of 12.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & 13.Ioane wouldn't be such a bad thing with Qwade at flyhalf.

Those blokes no which lines to run & can certainly get us front foot ball when we need the hard yards.

I know a few people will refer to Tokyo 2009 when we played AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Cross but that was with Gits @ 10.

A power centre combo would be far more potent with Qwade, Kurtley & JOC (James O'Connor).

 

[Epi]

Might not need a 'second five' type playmaker but a 12 really needs to know how to pass or the backline is starved. Even Nonu developed an effective passing game off both sides..

To be honest - passing isn't AACs strong suit. Friend sees him as a finisher which is probably not too far wrong. He's scored some great tries on the wing including one against the ABs that I doubt anyone else in the side would have...

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Totally against AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 12. I'm a big believer in an inside centre who has at at least some sort of passing game, even if they are a crasher. Epi is right, look at how much Nonu has improved his distribution and thus improved the All Black back line. If we were to play a big guy at 12, we would need someone at outside centre who is a distributor. I would be more inclined to play Ant or Horne at 12 and leave AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) where he is. At present Adam is our best outside centre and IMHO should be left there.

 

[qwerty51]

I'd like to see Horne play 12. We need some straight, hard runners in the backline.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

I'd like to see Horne play.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I'd like to see Horne play.

Good line.

 

[Red Rooster]

If SBW can play there then start looking at backrowers eg Higginbotham

 

[Searsy]

I agree with Disco. I think that a team should have 2 hard running backs excluding the wingers. Previously we have had Latham + Mortlock, or our centre combo's in the 90's / early naughties. Given the experience that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has all over the park, I couldn't see a reason why (if he were playing inside centre, with another straightener at outside centre) there could not be some sort of shared responsibility in attack with Beale, particularly off the set piece. I think it was termed 'flyback' when JOC (James O'Connor) performing a similar role in this years Super 14.

 

[S120]

I think the best thing about having another playmaker at 12 is the league style 2nd man play that Cooper and Giteau/Barnes engage in. I mean when they miss out the first runner (often a forward) and hit Cooper or Giteau or Barnes sweeping around the back. Gives that man the option of running to the defensive line with a lot of room or going on along the attacking line to players with even more space and with defenders often flat-footed. Not many of the defences that the Wallabies have come up against have been able to deal with it for a full game and it allows us to play even more expansively through JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell as it gives them even more room to work in before they hit the defensive line.

If we had someone like Nonu (the size of Elsom, the pace of Giteau and a much improved ball handling game) I'd love to have him at 12. But ATM the only other genuine option is A.Fainga'a who if we needed him I would be more than happy to call upon but the 2nd play maker option is working well ATM as far as I'm concerned and if we replaced Giteau with him I wouldn't be so sure this 2nd man style of play (which is being used a lot and working well) would be working.

 

[ChargerWA]

I'll answer your question with a question. Do we have one now? I'm not quite sure what Giteau does, he neither makes play nor straightens the line.

 

[dobduff11]

I agree all he does is get cut out by Cooper

 

[Searsy]

Bloody Giteau and Michale Clarke can go off and play leap frog reach around together. Two bloody protected cat pumpers who never lived up to the hype.

 

[Reddy!]

Giteau's spot in the team is as safe as a house for the time being. These are the names that have been put forward in this thread to replace him: Horne and Ioane. When are these two players ever fit for rugby, let alone international rugby? When will these players ever have time to strike up a combination with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) before the WC next year, especially if they are injured? They won't.

The only player who has the ability to replace Giteau - if that is the aim of this exercise - will be another play making 12, James O'Connor. Deans has already shown through selection that Barnes is out of favour.

 

[Joe Mac]

I know what you mean about having a significant amount of playmakers but I would prefer to see JOC (James O'Connor) moved to inside and another hard runner (finisher) given his wing spot. If you had Ioane, Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the hard runners, QC (Quade Cooper), KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) as the playmakers you have a very well balanced team.

9 Genia
10 QC (Quade Cooper)
11 Mitchell
12 JOC (James O'Connor)
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Ioane
15 KB (Kurtley Beale)

 

[Gagger]

Anyone got a definition somewhere of what a "play-maker" is? Seems to get used very broadly.

In my mind it's the "second five" idea - I guy who has vision and then creates 'plays' through his passing and kicking.

I agree we don't need two next to each other with QC (Quade Cooper) at 10, but I don't think that means we just need a meathead at 12 either.

I've said it before but JO'C fills that role superbly with his quick feet, pace, strength in the tackle and ability to offload. Think Horan rather than Grey.

And before you say it Lindommer, I reckon JOC (James O'Connor)'s centre field defence is chalk and cheese with his stuff out wide. He matched up to Nonu admirably for the Force a coupla seasons ago when he was even more of a pup. For sure we don't lose anything over Gits with such a move.

 

[Reddy!]

I know what you mean about having a significant amount of playmakers but I would prefer to see JOC (James O'Connor) moved to inside and another hard runner (finisher) given his wing spot.

A great man once said something very similar. We should be friends

Who would make your bench, then? I find it very hard to imagine Giteau as a bench option because he has played so little rugby off the bench. Would he have any impact?

 

[Gagger]

9 Genia
10 QC (Quade Cooper)
11 Mitchell
12 JOC (James O'Connor)
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Ioane
15 KB (Kurtley Beale)

That is one spine-tingling backline

 

[Joe Mac]

A great man once said something very similar. We should be friends

Who would make your bench, then? I find it very hard to imagine Giteau as a bench option because he has played so little rugby off the bench. Would he have any impact?

Burgess: no explanation required
Barnes: essential for the bench because in wet weather when forward play takes over, his kicking game is better than anyone elses (running the game from 10). his defence is also pretty handy.
Chambers: could become our first rate 13 in the coming Super 15 season so i would bench him. With an outside backline injury you could easily put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or JOC (James O'Connor) into 11,14 or 15 leaving Barnes and Chambers to cover any centre issues.

 

[Searsy]

Burgess: no explanation required
Barnes: essential for the bench because in wet weather when forward play takes over, his kicking game is better than anyone elses (running the game from 10). his defence is also pretty handy.
Chambers: could become our first rate 13 in the coming Super 15 season so i would bench him. With an outside backline injury you could easily put AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) or JOC (James O'Connor) into 11,14 or 15 leaving Barnes and Chambers to cover any centre issues.

Bugger it, put Morgan Turunui, Tom Carter and Willie Carne on the bench. With that backline, they would rack up eleventy seven points before any of them have to come off injured.

 

[Jethro Tah]

I know what you mean about having a significant amount of playmakers but I would prefer to see JOC (James O'Connor) moved to inside and another hard runner (finisher) given his wing spot. If you had Ioane, Mitchell and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the hard runners, QC (Quade Cooper), KB (Kurtley Beale) and JOC (James O'Connor) as the playmakers you have a very well balanced team.

9 Genia
10 QC (Quade Cooper)
11 Mitchell
12 JOC (James O'Connor)
13 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Ioane
15 KB (Kurtley Beale)

Could someone please fax this to Dingo Deans as the backline for the WC 2011 team sheet?