Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[Braveheart81]

You must read different research. The current point system is outdated and needs to change.

I am not saying nrc style perfect answer but rather somewhere between current point system and nrc system with some other possible changes eg 5 min sin bin. A planned and consultative approach can work out the blueprint.

This is like the article on conversation.com where it highlights rugby needs to adopt same approach like other sports eg cricket where not about those who don't like test cricket but create a product that is relevant to modern day fan to get more fans. Eg why cricket Australia looks at night tests and other constant areas of innovation.

You and other rugby die hards need to stop with the defence for change against those who have switched away from rugby because they find it boring and look at creating a product that appeals to a wider audience. That is the whole issue - current product does not have appeal to a wider audience.

If cricket with its very conservative and traditional roots can do it why can't rugby? sorry all I ever hear from rugby hard core die hards is excuses and that really needs to change - too many from old amateur generation holding onto the past which is doing nothing to make rugby have a bigger future in today's world. Change is not a choice - it has to happen as change won't stop - it is just that rugby will be left even further behind

It's not that simple. Changes to points systems have been experimented with at various levels and they do result in different actions by teams (both in terms of penalties they give away and what teams do when they do get a penalty). It is pretty clear that if you reduce shots at goal you need to increase the number of cards because otherwise players infringe more often and it doesn't improve the game. You need to look carefully at whether it makes a better game to have players getting carded more frequently so there are mismatches in player numbers.

Please don't paint me as someone who is just resistant to change. I have thought about this issue at length and have written plenty about it on this forum. It is not a binary situation and any changes have a multitude of effects on the way the game is played.

As I have said in the last couple of posts, I don't think there is a time in the modern game where attacking, positive rugby has been more dominant in terms of actually winning rugby games on a consistent basis.

Globally, rugby is doing very well. Clearly there is an issue with the number of fans in Australia but that is not something we can easily control. I would question whether a dramatic change to the game to simplify it would suddenly convert a whole lot of rugby league fans to following rugby union. I think you'd be just as likely to turn existing fans away without capturing many new ones.

Rugby's equivalent to T20 Cricket is clearly rugby 7s. It is a growth area attracting a different set of fans. The challenge is that it is not easy to turn it into a 3 hour TV product like T20 is without involving a huge amount more players.

 

[barbarian]

OK Nutter, you've now had six straight posts on this one. Either throw it all in one post, or consider taking a break for a bit.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

OK Nutter, you've now had six straight posts on this one. Either throw it all in one post, or consider taking a break for a bit.

No I am done now -


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[dru]

Or write an article?

 

[half]

http://theconversation.com/four-rea...truggling-despite-the-wallabies-success-49741


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I think this should be a must read to many in rugby.

Me thinks answers need to be found. However there will come a point the famous tipping point maybe when there will not be enough people who care, have the time and energy to implement change.

I think its closer than many on this forum think, generational change could bite us very hard.

Maybe confirmation bias setting in and reinforcement is not there but the article clearly identifies how at grass roots we are falling behind.

I was in a conversation early this afternoon, with a fellow from Newcastle who believed all was sorta well in the land of rugby and with the Reds coming good next year all will be solved. I sent him the following youtube Cuil Theory

I don't think is understood the humour...

 

[half]

Just quickly to call back to one of my pet issues:

The Socceroos played Japan tonight. This is the biggest game for the Socceroos this year. In 2009 the corresponding match (on a Tuesday night at the MCG) drew a crowd of 75,000.

Tonight it drew just 48,000.

It's a good crowd, but not what the FFA would have been hoping for, and there were plenty of empty seats on show in the coverage.
.

True

But FFA have made it very clear the A-League is far more important to them their national teams in terms of building and growing their game.

Huge rumour from She Who Must Be Obeyed is next season the A-League will be 12 teams.

Bragging rights about national teams, I am unsure if that is how to get the young in.

Maybe your right the Wallabies are both more popular and better known than the Socceroos. Personally I doubt it but the over riding point is FFA see the A-League as were they will grow and do media deals.

Gallop and FFA were all over their opening round, the Wanders V SFC clash and Yoshi pushing the A-League not the Socceroos.

Its this or my old chestnut, national domestic is more important than the national teams if measured from wanting to grow rugby. If measured for bragging rights over the other national sides then the Wallabies are the main show.

 

[half]

^^^^^^

Further to my post above on the Soccer Bloody Soccer site the following article jumps out re the A-League growing and the boss could be right.

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/10/12/league-expansion-strategic-priority-0

Football Federation Australia chief executive David Gallop says the expansion of the A-League is a strategic priority after a meeting with the Australian Professional Football Clubs Association in Melbourne.

Also an article about the Mariners buying Gosford stadium http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/article/2016/10/12/mariners-ramp-bid-buy-central-coast-stadium

.

 

[NTT]

Bumbies in talks with the ARU about administration streamlining.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...p/news-story/dfe254d976316c0cd636b08a7564b840


More money for pathways, grassroots and HPU's while shedding an outdated model is the way to go.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think that I can provide an example which shows (a) how far soccer have advanced and (b) how far we've dropped. This afternoon I watched a fantastic NRC game between Eagles and Rising - thoroughly entertaining and no general sports fan could have asked for more.

Then I watched the news on Channel 10; when we got to the 15 minute sports bulletin at the end whe had: horse racing as the lead story, followed by a lengthy report on A league soccer, then surfing, then Australian basketball (NBA or whaterver it's called), then state cricket, then tennis, then moto GP and not even a mention of the NRC game let alone a highlights package and/or report.

People trying to downplay soccer and the inroads that it has made into the culture are way off the mark.

 

[wamberal]

The NRC is in its very early days. To be frank, it still does not seem to have captured much of the rusted on rugby market, let alone the wider sports fan demographic.

That said, we might hope that TEN has a vested interest in promoting the game, given that they have the Wallabies v ABs on next weekend.

Soccer has always been there, the potential of the game was held down by ethnic rivalries.

 

[half]

Before you read this post say to yourself and repeat it a few times.

Super Rugby rates slightly more than the A-League. Then say we have only 5 teams.

This post will be either right or wrong but we will know within 4 weeks.

If you recall I have a client with a small media company. He told me this yesterday. If this is right FFA are showing the ARU how to do it. Consider if this is true how it will grow soccer.

He sent me the following.

Have it from a good source

Fox are in for $75 mil per year 4yr deal, ch 9 $25 mil per yr , 9 will get all Socceroos games plus 1 Friday night game ,one Sunday afternoon game and a highlights package.
Fox will basically get what they have now but will be paying $35 mil more for it but this is also to keep Optus from grabbing A league to add to Epl , also Fox will on sell to BEIN which will stream / broadcast into Asia / Middle East .
Part of deal is for 2 more teams by 2018 and 2 by 2020 or prior to new deal been agreed in 2020.
There are a few details to be ironed out but this is the general way it will work , the whole thing will be done and dusted by mid November.['quote]

 

[Spieber]

Full stadium in Perth for the league test. Have some thoughts and will post after some research.

 

[Quick Hands]

Before you read this post say to yourself and repeat it a few times.

Super Rugby rates slightly more than the A-League. Then say we have only 5 teams.

This post will be either right or wrong but we will know within 4 weeks.

If you recall I have a client with a small media company. He told me this yesterday. If this is right FFA are showing the ARU how to do it. Consider if this is true how it will grow soccer.

He sent me the following.

Half,
I'm becoming more and more convinced that you are right.

Let me say this before I'm set upon by people: I love super rugby, I enjoy watching the games, I think that the standard of play is high (even though the Aussie teams were fairly ordinary this year). It also provides our Wallaby players with a good standard of competition in which to play and the ARU through SANZAAR earn significant income through it. The problem with super rugby in terms of the Australian market are: it is hidden away on pay TV and thus out of sight for most general sports fans, many of the games are played and therefore telecast in the middle of the night and the structure is so confusing that even the people who designed it can't explain how it all works.

And I'll continue: the NRC in it's current incarnation has been an unqualified success IMO. The standard of play has improved each year and it is slowly gainig traction at the local level. The Rays for example get great coverage in the Manly Daily - there's been an article most days this week and a full back page spread today, plus numerous articles since the season began. I can sugget improvements (as I did back on page 40 - and was howled down), but I'm hard pressed to find fault with the standard of play or the organisation. Only trouble is that it is also hidden away on pay TV, it's barely noticed in the main daily papers and can't even crack it for a mention in the Saturday evening sports report (which goes for 15 minutes in a 60 minute bulletin).

IMO, we actually have two pretty good products, but no one other than rusted on supporters either knows or presumably therefore cares about either of them.

As I see it, the essential issue with super rugby is that each of the countries involved face different issues and therefore want different things from it. No one else faces competition from AFL and a cashed up league competition. We want derbies and maximum trans Tasman games in friendly time zones, the Kiwis want regular competition against the South Africans, the South Africans don't want derbies as they see that as nothing more than an expensive Currie Cup and they also have their government mandated quotas. In both SA and NZ rugby has broad community and media support. In these circumstances, while I support the super rugby concept, I can't see how it is going to promote the game in this country beyond the ever-diminishing rusted-on support base.

At least with the NRC we are in control and can tailor things to suit our needs. In time I think that this competition can be an attractive FTA option and can be our prime vehicle for promoting, advancing and expanding the game. AS I have previously suggested - it needs to be 2 rounds home and away with the final on the Sunday before the NRL grand final (a day on which there is no other football code played). Make the final a carnival of rugby day and do everything we can to get it on FTA. (Having some sort of womens component will assist if not ensure this)

(Please note: none of the above implies ANY criticism of Bill Pulver or the ARU)

 

[Quick Hands]

That said, we might hope that TEN has a vested interest in promoting the game, given that they have the Wallabies v ABs on next weekend.

That's why I kept watching the sports report and thinking that, "surely the NRC will be next". Alas no.

 

[Quick Hands]

Full stadium in Perth for the league test. Have some thoughts and will post after some research.

Well you've had Michael Foley over there coaching their super side for three years and playing the most deathly boring and unsuccessful style imaginable. With Hickey he managed to alienate rusted on Waratah supprters until crowds went from 30,000 plus to 13,000. I'm not the least bit surprised that a league test is sold out in Perth.

 

[wamberal]

That's why I kept watching the sports report and thinking that, "surely the NRC will be next". Alas no.

Part of the problem is probably that we do not have the resources that other codes and sports have to hand-feed the media with favourable stories.

 

[mst]

Part of the problem is probably that we do not have the resources that other codes and sports have to hand-feed the media with favourable stories.

It probably part of the key issue that is then only overshadowed by the products we have.

Its a bit like the old jokes. You know, the old 4 sports walk in to a bar type thing.... but we are the butt of the joke when it comes to broadcasting.

So the AFL and NRL have a buffet of product.

The a league now has the FFA cup and 10 team, 5 games x 27 weeks A-League and busting to expand.

The ARU has Super Rugby which is on some weeks at sometimes good times or the NRC which is 8 teams (soon to be 9 with the charity of WR (World Rugby)) that is 4 games x 8 weeks and a final. Some of the teams don't have a set home ground and teams keep re-branding and are a year to year prospect.

We offer nothing more than an appetiser in the sports broadcasting stakes - so its the reason we don't get to sit at the big boys table or get to tell favourable stories. We are the equivalent of the try-hard kid trying to get attention but when we get the attention we have nothing to offer.

I remember many years ago talking to the head of NASCAR and he explaining how its done. He was very clear to make sure we understood that the racing bit was a by-product, first up it was about keeping as many cars on the track going round and round for people to watch - all about the supporters first. Thus why the have rules to substitute drivers mid race, you can even drive other competitors cars. The competitions will come regardless.

The point is if you are an entertainment product you need to think like one, actually be one but you can easily lose your way in desperation by introducing stupid rules and not shifting with the correct market trends.

Even the mighty can trip over themselves. Its interesting when you read about power house sports like NASCAR saying that crowd attendance are no longer the way to make the money (like Super Rugby home derbies) and what happens when you tinker with rules (like the NRC). Even the centralised model of merchandising etc has put off fans (ARU want alliance with Super Rugby clubs could be viewed as similar).

You may find that he appeal the A-League offers an alternative for those who don't align well with AFL or NRL. For some its not a natural fit, nor where they brought up on it or able to play it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ndance-tv-ratings-fans-social-media/86573130/

 

[wamberal]

The crucial point is that we are indeed in the entertainment business. The moment the game went officially professional, everything changed. Slowly, but inexorably.

 

[barbarian]

True.

And the problem with the NRC is, broadly speaking, it has no narrative. No reason for being. No hook for the general sports fan to watch, or more importantly to care.

It's an artificial venture, designed to improve our playing stocks. And while it's working an absolute treat in that regard, it's going to take another 10 years before there is any meaningful history, tradition or broader reason for people to really care about it.
.

 

[wamberal]

Absolutely right. But I would add that the NRC has to be played at decent venues, or rather, at least the televised games do. And, one way or another, more production money has to be spent so that the quality of the broadcast matches the quality of the play, which is not too shabby.

I recall some years ago that one Brisbane club game was telecast each week from Ballymore. The NRC has to move to that sort of model sooner rather than later.