Declining participation and ARU plans for the future

[Lindommer]

God spare me. Here's a bloke who came up from the ONLY rugby club in Sydney which owns its ground and then subsequently chose take the king's shilling in professional sport, and afterwards has the hide to bag those who do something similar. With all due respect to the physical challenges, Brett, for similar results.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

God spare me. Here's a bloke who who came up from the ONLY rugby club in Sydney which owns its ground and then subsequently chose take the king's shilling in professional sport, and afterwards has the hide to bag those who do something similar. With all due respect to the physical challenges, Brett, for similar results.

Isn't he the President of the club so broke they cannot invest in an NRC team but in a previous article boasted about having board members that could do all the administrative duties of the ARU before lunch?

 

[I like to watch]

What does the ownership of TG Milner have to do with anything I this topic?

If you were inferring he was criticising players for changing codes to earn a $$ you might have a point, but he isn't.
He's criticising the numpties who are recruiting failures/journeymen from another code,when there are better candidates hiding unseen in the Shute Shield.

 

[I like to watch]

Isn't he the President of the club so broke they cannot invest in an NRC team but in a previous article boasted about having board members that could do all the administrative duties of the ARU before lunch?

No he's the President of a club that has been in the top 3 clubs throughout his tenure as President,and refused to invest on philosophical grounds.
He has many times criticised the ARU for wanting clubs to fund a new third tier that the ARU wanted/needed.
His belief is that clubs have always been, & should continue to be the third tier.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

No he's the President of a club that has been in the top 3 clubs throughout his tenure as President,and refused to invest on philosophical grounds.
He has many times criticised the ARU for wanting clubs to fund a new third tier that the ARU wanted/needed.
His belief is that clubs have always been, & should continue to be the third tier.

He's the guy who's living in the past. The clubs cannot provide the necessary environment to continue the development of players. I watch the Shute Shield every week and have my own club allegiances and freely admit that.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What does the ownership of TG Milner have to do with anything I this topic?

If you were inferring he was criticising players for changing codes to earn a $$ you might have a point, but he isn't.
He's criticising the numpties who are recruiting failures/journeymen from another code,when there are better candidates hiding unseen in the Shute Shield.

Irae Simone was clear and away the best 12 in the SS this season. Where was he playing last year?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What does the ownership of TG Milner have to do with anything I this topic?

If you were inferring he was criticising players for changing codes to earn a $$ you might have a point, but he isn't.
He's criticising the numpties who are recruiting failures/journeymen from another code,when there are better candidates hiding unseen in the Shute Shield.

Eastwood own all the built infrastructure on that land as well? Including the bar? That's why Southern have been able to maintain themselves, or so we have been told. Why can't Eastwood?

 

[I like to watch]

Irae Simone was clear and away the best 12 in the SS this season. Where was he playing last year?

What's your point?
No one is suggesting League players should be black listed, merely they shouldn't be given the inside track on pro contracts without first proving themselves.
It's good to see Simone proved his worth this year,and I believe his good form has been recognised with an EPS contract.

 

[half]

For all the complaints he makes his club sits next door to the Southern Hemisphere biggest research park, next or across the road to "The Middle of No Where" Macquarie University Training facility, yet the he has failed to stay connected to the town as the population demographics have changed, to attract sponsors on his doorstep.

They could not even get the club house to make money and its run at a profit by North Ryde RSL

For all his goings on and pointing out ARU issues, which he is sometimes right, he has totally failed to run a club house that has next to no competition at a profit, and generally has failed to connect to massive local business houses, and the changing community demographics.

One perfect example, lets just assume instead of getting in the RSL he had leased out part of the club to an Asian restaurant, the club would more than likely be full every night and a great chance to introduce the locals to the delights of Rugby.

People in glass houses.

 

[I like to watch]

Huh?
Google it,find out when he was appointed Prez, then find out how many years before that, North Ryde RSL bailed them out.

Write him a letter and tell him 2 out of the last 3 comps isn't good enough, there are other KPI's that you, as a non member believe he should be prioritising.

 

[half]

Huh?
Google it,find out when he was appointed Prez, then find out how many years before that, North Ryde RSL bailed them out.

Write him a letter and tell him 2 out of the last 3 comps isn't good enough, there are other KPI's that you, as a non member believe he should be prioritising.

Not a member, but a regular attender of matches and live in the area.

Amazing nay astonishing that the previous pres was worst, thats in large part why he got the gig. Maybe I put to much on Pap but if your metrics measurement is based on results then plus one.

However the metrics I look at are the dramatic fall in local junior numbers, with is closely aliened to the changing population demographics of the area.

Revenue and time as always is a huge consideration but that club house should have been raking it in it was very poorly run and screamed for better management for yonks.

I actually don't entirely disagree with many of his statements pertaining to the NRC.

The point I am making is Pap duties I argue include growing rugby in the area and this in a very channelling environment. In this respect he does not have a good record nor in connecting to the wealthiest industrial park in Australia and maybe the southern hemisphere.

Meaning while I respect his rugby knowledge, devotion to the club, his rugby connects. I can equally say the seemingly inability to grow or slow down the decline of rugby is very poor, which is IMO directly related to a lack of connections to the changing population demographics.

Hillview has no players at all now, Epping has only five senior teams as I am sure you are aware, and they are on the doorstep of TGM.

So when Pap has a go at the ARU for not looking after some of their lower order duties. I find it hard when he is the same at his lower order duties. Thus my comment " People in glass Houses"

 

[Gagger]

I bet that even if I went to Brett and his peers at Premier rugby clubs and asked:
"Over the last 20 years, has there been a time when the ARU came to clubs with good proposals for the grassroots game, only for them to be shafted by infighting among those clubs?"

The answer would be in truth yes, MANY times. It's the nature of the 'tribalism' that's even in evidence in the last few posts.

So really, the important point isn't about the inflammatory stuff either way, it's about the state of the game.

And the truth is it looks very, very bleak. Here's the latest http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-each-under-new-proposal-20160825-gr0tac.html

Maybe partly because of the club/ARU shit above, and maybe partly because national body types have an unshakeable need to control everything (even when they don't have the capability or capacity) the ARU chose a strategy some years ago. It was to double down on funding the top of the pyramid.

Do that for long enough and you get what we have now. This is the most salient point of what Brett's written and for those who say "The ARU have that in hand" nothing in their latest strategy or approach tells me that's he case.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

An article from Fitzy along similar lines as Papworth's, though more measured and less hysterical:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...es-bledisloe-cup-debacle-20160824-gr0aka.html

I like Brett and the passion he has for the club game but all too often in commentary and in his articles he talks his own book. I suspect we agree on far more than we disagree, but fair dinkum, just pulling out of SANZAAR, shutting the Super rugby franchises and effectively making Sydney and Brisbane first grade a selection trial for Wallaby honours is a recipe for the death of the game in this country. It might have worked (sort of) in the amateur era but it won't work any more.

The bottom line for me is to do as much as is humanly possible to foster the club - state - country pathway, across all states in Australia, not just NSW and QLD. This is why I back the NRC as the bridge between club and rep footy. Let's give it some time to work and if it doesn't, sure go with something else. It seems to me that the issues with it mainly reside in Sydney, the rest of the states seem to be OK with it.

 

[kiap]

He's criticising the numpties who are recruiting failures/journeymen from another code,when there are better candidates hiding unseen in the Shute Shield.

Did ol' Pappy get above club level in rugby league? Did he play around seven games in five years at the Roosters?; if that's not a code-crossing failure/journeyman then let's hear the excuses.

Papworth specifically bags this bloke:

But what does the professional game do? They sign Curtis Rona to the Western Force! Some of those Norths blokes would eat him up.

At least Rona made the Kiwi RL squad last year and played 150 NRL games. And before taking the king's shilling Rona was in the Western Force Academy. Yeah, that's right, from rugby union in Western Australia.

I could pick a combined team from both grand final days that wouldn’t have been too far out of its depth last Saturday night.

This Papworth fella is no numpty. He's an on- and off-field genius.

After he wins the Bledisloe at the clubland selection table, let's get him to solve rugby's financial problems.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What's your point?
No one is suggesting League players should be black listed, merely they shouldn't be given the inside track on pro contracts without first proving themselves.
It's good to see Simone proved his worth this year,and I believe his good form has been recognised with an EPS contract.

You mentioned numpties recruiting from other ocdes and there being better candidates already in place. Not always so.

 

[Jagman]

There's the irony. Curtis Rona IS actually a product of WA rugby. Perhaps if there had been an NRC team in Perth back when he joined the NRL he might not have left in the first place. Papworth wants more money for Eastwood and Sydney district rugby, not what's best for "grass roots rugby" nation wide.

Sent from my FP2 using Tapatalk

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

An article from Fitzy along similar lines as Papworth's, though more measured and less hysterical:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...es-bledisloe-cup-debacle-20160824-gr0aka.html

I like Brett and the passion he has for the club game but all too often in commentary and in his articles he talks his own book. I suspect we agree on far more than we disagree, but fair dinkum, just pulling out of SANZAAR, shutting the Super rugby franchises and effectively making Sydney and Brisbane first grade a selection trial for Wallaby honours is a recipe for the death of the game in this country. It might have worked (sort of) in the amateur era but it won't work any more.

The bottom line for me is to do as much as is humanly possible to foster the club - state - country pathway, across all states in Australia, not just NSW and QLD. This is why I back the NRC as the bridge between club and rep footy. Let's give it some time to work and if it doesn't, sure go with something else. It seems to me that the issues with it mainly reside in Sydney, the rest of the states seem to be OK with it.

The Fitz article is well meaning but tends to maintain the idea that the grassroots of the game only extends to 12 clubs in Sydney and 10 in Brisbane. Which is funny as these same clubs are trying to position themselves as elite performance structures.

I agree that the best way to fix our current situation is to sort out the grassroots but I'm talking about the actual grassroots. Your junior and village clubs etc.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Agreed, WCR, that is part of his thrust and where I part ways with both him and Pappy. Grass roots has to mean juniors, grade, state/NRC in all rugby playing states and cities, not just Sydney.

 

[Braveheart81]

I feel like the club rugby teams would do themselves a world of long term good if they banned player payments, committed to being wholly amateur and then went to the ARU and said they were committed to being part of the grassroots to develop the game in their areas and in turn the ARU could be more confident that money diverted directly to them or via state unions would actually be well spent.

 

[I like to watch]

Not a member, but a regular attender of matches and live in the area.

Amazing nay astonishing that the previous pres was worst, thats in large part why he got the gig. Maybe I put to much on Pap but if your metrics measurement is based on results then plus one.

However the metrics I look at are the dramatic fall in local junior numbers, with is closely aliened to the changing population demographics of the area.

Revenue and time as always is a huge consideration but that club house should have been raking it in it was very poorly run and screamed for better management for yonks.

I actually don't entirely disagree with many of his statements pertaining to the NRC.

The point I am making is Pap duties I argue include growing rugby in the area and this in a very channelling environment. In this respect he does not have a good record nor in connecting to the wealthiest industrial park in Australia and maybe the southern hemisphere.

Meaning while I respect his rugby knowledge, devotion to the club, his rugby connects. I can equally say the seemingly inability to grow or slow down the decline of rugby is very poor, which is IMO directly related to a lack of connections to the changing population demographics.

Hillview has no players at all now, Epping has only five senior teams as I am sure you are aware, and they are on the doorstep of TGM.

So when Pap has a go at the ARU for not looking after some of their lower order duties. I find it hard when he is the same at his lower order duties. Thus my comment " People in glass Houses"

You can't hold a volunteer office holder of an amateur club responsible for investing in the growth of junior clubs,especially when the ruling body levies these players.
If everywhere was growing juniors & his area was performing poorly against the trend,then you might have a point.
But blaming Papworth for Pulver's neglect of the grassroots is just wrong.