Deans set to announce new-look squad

[Spook]

Who are the "established" senior players who will be shocked to miss out?

I'm not saying I agree with this list but some surprise selections could exclude the following given they are senior players relative to other blokes:

Waugh, Sharpe, Baxter (before people kill me over the tight head position, Deans said the battle for 3 was wide open in one of the articles although could be just motivating Baxter et al), Mortlock, Burgess, Palu, Tuquiri, Chisolm, Freir, Horwill?

I think Horwill will be under huge pressure from the likes of Caldwell, Kimlin, Mumm, etc..even Hand. Horwill has the size though.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

Ok, here is my two bobs worth.
Deans doesn't care about the results domestic series this or next year, he is more interested in developing a core squad and he picks a squad that is more than likely to go through and be the core of RWC 2011 - expect some left field selections.

 

[Scotty]

BTW I promised, when he got the gig, that I would never second guess or criticize Deans. My approach was to watch what he did, try to understand why he did it and learn from the outcome. I have stuck to that and must say I have learned a great deal.

Biff,

Did you learn anything out of Deans playing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback for such an extended period last year?

 

[Lindommer]

Ok, here is my two bobs worth. Deans doesn't care about the results domestic series this or next year, he is more interested in developing a core squad and he picks a squad that is more than likely to go through and be the core of RWC 2011 - expect some left field selections.

whispers is spot on here, Deans is interested in the domestic series to see how players perform under pressure but I suspect he also looks for clues about players' potential to improve under his tutelage. Burgess' ability to play an up-tempo game is right up Deans' alley, Dingo feels Luke's shortcomings can be fixed up at Wallabies training; I reckon he feels the same about Tahu. Dingo has come to the realisation he has to do a lot more skills training at the top level than an ABs coach would expect to do, that's why he's brought Richard Graham on board as skills coach. Robbie likes hard-nosed second rowers, a la Brad Thorn, and athletic outside backs like Umaga, Muliaina and Leon MacDonald; don't be in the least surprised to see Caldwell in his squad and Ioane and Shepherd in the 13 and 15 jumpers come 2011. The bulk of the last year's newbies will be retained.

Deans' decision to send Beale, Fitzpatrick, Horne, JOC (James O'Connor) et al to the under 20 cup in Japan is very wise: he wants to see them perform against their peers without the pressure of older forwards. Confidence gained here will be invaluable.

 

[fatprop]

I think Deans saw a bit of Muliaina in AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). A guy with great leg drive who may grow into an excellent counter attack weapon.

He first tried Shepherd who was wounded in the early tests.

I was looking at last years June squad, 30 picked, 17 forward(3 hookers,4 props), 13 backs(3 nine's)

2008 Wallabies Squad

Forwards (17)
Alexander, Ben
Baxter, Alistair
Brown, Richard
Chisholm, Mark?
Dunning, Matt?
Elsom, Rocky
Freier, Adam?
Hoiles, Stephen?
Horwill, James?
Moore, Stephen
Mumm, Dean
Palu, Wycliff
Polota-Nau, Tatafu
Robinson, Benn
Sharpe, Nathan
Smith, George
Waugh, Phil?

Backs (13)
Ashley-Cooper, Adam
Barnes, Berrick
Burgess, Luke
Cordingley, Sam
Cross, Ryan
Giteau, Matt
Hynes, Peter?
Ioane, Digby
Mortlock, Stirling
Sheehan, Brett?
Shepherd, Cameron
Tuqiri, Lote
Turner, Lachie

2007 World Cup squad players not considered for selection due to injury:
Holmes, Greg
Latham, Chris
Mitchell, Drew
McMeniman, Hugh?
Staniforth, Scott
Vickerman, Dan

I highlighted the question marks through injury and/or form and crossed out the goings

 

[Biffo]

BTW I promised, when he got the gig, that I would never second guess or criticize Deans. My approach was to watch what he did, try to understand why he did it and learn from the outcome. I have stuck to that and must say I have learned a great deal.

Biff,

Did you learn anything out of Deans playing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback for such an extended period last year?

yes.

 

[Scarfman]

OK, I'll go there.

Which is what, biff?

 

[Blue]

BTW I promised, when he got the gig, that I would never second guess or criticize Deans. My approach was to watch what he did, try to understand why he did it and learn from the outcome. I have stuck to that and must say I have learned a great deal.

Biff,

Did you learn anything out of Deans playing AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback for such an extended period last year?

yes.

I learnt that he has no kicking game of any significance and that his decision making after fielding the high ball is totally unimaginative.

He doesn't strike me as being suited to 15, unless his decision making from the back and kick return improves. Great at running it back, but you canlt do it every time unfortunately.

 

[Biffo]

OK, I'll go there.

Which is what, biff?

That Aussie Robbie will persist with a player judged by the rabble, the masses, experts, media commentators and others as not performing well enough.

That Aussie Robbie is right and everyone else is wrong is far more likely than is the reverse.

The question to me then became: why?

I have yet to find out. After I learned the above, I thought that I might get an answer to "why?" as the 2009 season unfolds. I am waiting.

I have terrific discussions with a mate who has taken the same approach as I to watching Aussie Robbie. We never try to guess what Robbie is going to do. We watch and amalyze after the event. We have learned a great deal by not getting trapped in pre-game speculation and prejudice.

 

[Scarfman]

That's pretty zen, biffo. I prefer to mouth off about everything beforehand then dress up the results as what I said all along.

But the strange AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) selection is a bad example if you want me to follow Robbie blindly without criticizing him.

 

[Biffo]

That's pretty zen, biffo. I prefer to mouth off about everything beforehand then dress up the results as what I said all along.

But the strange AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) selection is a bad example if you want me to follow Robbie blindly without criticizing him.

Please have a look at your avatar. Perhaps replace it with a picture of the Raging Bull? :lmao:

We don't follow Aussie Robbie blindly. We analyze what he has done after the event, not before (tenses carefully chosen).

Part of the reason for my attitude on Robbie was the best of all - a bet. My mate and I were in a kiwi-dominated bar just after Robbie got the gig. The kiwis (bless their little hearts and minds - see footnote A.) gave us hell about stealing Robbie and then told us that we'd be criticizing him mercilessely very soon - doubtless, in their pinhead minds (see footnote A.) after the very next Bledisloe encounter. I replied that I would not be criticizing Deans at all.
A brave soul among our antagonists then challenged me to a bet on whether I would or would not criticize Robbie. I accepted and the bet was struck. The timeframe was set at six months.

My mate and I then had a long talk about how to view Aussie Robbie and came up with the approach we have adopted.

The bet was in due course won by myself. I should, however, have known better. The other party defaulted, as have all three kiwis with whom I have bet on rugby matters - see footnote A.

Footnote A. Racist attacks. Punish the author. :lmao:

 

[Scotty]

We analyze what he has done after the event, not before (tenses carefully chosen).

This is the part that I am asking about in relation to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). You almost always have strong view points on everything else - so surely you can share you view of this particular selection with the rest of us?

 

[Scotty]

PS I get the feeling that Deans will want McLinden in his squad.

 

[Biffo]

We analyze what he has done after the event, not before (tenses carefully chosen).

This is the part that I am asking about in relation to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). You almost always have strong view points on everything else - so surely you can share you view of this particular selection with the rest of us?

How many times do I have to write that I am a very strong admirer of Ashley-Cooper - for his skills, athleticism, ball sense and courage - but question whether his form this season justifies selection for the Wallabies?

To be very specific for right now, I would not select Ashley-Cooper in a Wallaby 22, I would certainly have him in an extended squad of 35 or so (and would do some remedial work to help him regain form) and would have him marginal in a Wallaby 30, leaning a little to inclusion and remedial work.

 

[Scarfman]

Listen biffo, you Kiwi-brained Saffer son of a Pom,

we are asking WHY ROBBIE PERSISTED WITH AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) AT 15.

Answer it, or say: "I have no idea, despite my focus on analysing Robbie's selections after the event."

 

[Biffo]

Listen biffo, you Kiwi-brained Saffer son of a Pom,

we are asking WHY ROBBIE PERSISTED WITH AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) AT 15.

Answer it, or say: "I have no idea, despite my focus on analysing Robbie's selections after the event."

Read Scarfie, you #%%$# **&^ **** (must be careful, a prefect might get me), I have already answered that - at precisely 5.16.47 pm AEST yesterday. The answer is:

I don't know, but hope to find out through analyzing selections for 2009.

Possible reasons include:

1. Robbie judged Ashley-Cooper to be the best 15 available.
2. Robbie judged Ashley-Cooper plus two particular wings to be the best available combination at the back.
3. Ashley-Cooper was filling in for an injured player (possibly Shepherd)
4. Ashley-Cooper was keeping the spot warm for a rising youngster (e.g. O'Connor, Beale, Cooper).
5. Others.

Reasons which I discount are:

1. Robbie just doesn't like Ashley-Cooper.
2. Robbie wanted the Wallabies to practice their skills chasing and not chasing kicks delivered 15 metres before the first defender and directed on poor height, line and length.
3. There were no options.
4. A player power group pressured Robbie into playing Ashley-Cooper at 15 so that he would not be a threat to Mortlock at 13.
5. Robbie is less than competent.

Read this &*&*head - I will watch what happens this year and then opine if I find the answer.

OK?

I would suggest that Robbie puts available players in classes, such as (1) the in squad (2) project (3) stores (4) on the radar (5) others.

Now, about changing your avatar to the Raging Bull

 

[Scarfman]

After the event? Sounds like you're waiting until his autobiography comes out.

For myself, I'll say it: no fucking idea.

 

[Scotty]

I thought I had an idea at the start - which would fall into Biffs category 2 - project. He say AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) having all the skills but being under utilised by the Wallabies, in particular he liked his strong running and step with a great ablity to counter attack from the back.

Unfortunately it became apparent that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was either told not to counter attack, or was scared to so instead put up the most amazing number of innocuous up and unders (well they were ups for him and unders for the opposition) I have ever seen. I quickly lost all comprehension as to the decision.

 

[fatprop]

I thought I had an idea at the start - which would fall into Biffs category 2 - project. He say AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) having all the skills but being under utilised by the Wallabies, in particular he liked his strong running and step with a great ablity to counter attack from the back.

Unfortunately it became apparent that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was either told not to counter attack, or was scared to so instead put up the most amazing number of innocuous up and unders (well they were ups for him and unders for the opposition) I have ever seen. I quickly lost all comprehension as to the decision.

The Aus backs are too lazy, to counter they need to get back and give AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) options, no options mean he has to kick. We did it for about two tests

 

[Scarfman]

He didn't have to kick an up'n'under every time. He could have kicked for distance / touch. He just didn't play like a fullback.

But I agree with you. Lote is the worst, who seems to think that the deep ball has nothing to do with him.