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Cooper - Good or Great rugby player - discuss.

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Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Athilnaur said:
I had this discussion with my Dad a few weeks back. He's a Kiwi and doesn't think much of him. Poor defender, has brain fades, stupid crap re McCaw, Carlos Spencer, etc, etc, etc. I put in his skills are superb, he's a smart guy, and he's starting to show some generalship etc etc. I say he is young, but has it in him to be great. Dad doesn't see it. I used to be a big Carlos Spencer fan so he probably considered the whole conversation deja vu! Along comes Italy and I am saying 'see, he can control the game and be sensible'. We chat. Dad agrees but still isn't sold.

Then Ireland happens. Never underestimate the judgement of a 72 year old Kiwi who has been avidly following rugby since primary school.

But all that said, I still think Quade has it in him to be a truly great 10, one of the best. It certainly won't be this year, or maybe even next, and in fairness that's no surprise he is still pretty early in his career. I think much will depend on who he chooses to surround himself with, and who he turns to for guidance.
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A smart guy?
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
RedsHappy said:
A crucial point in there Bowside, thanks. Just on the highlighted matter above...if you read Link's latest SMH piece out today:

(http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...sets-and-controlled-chaos-20110921-1klb4.html)

....not only is it an intriguing insight into Link's depth of coaching capability and thinking, but it importantly implies how Link conditions (in a playing sense) his key players to deal with stress, the creating and use of team structure and precision game plans, and the creating of stress for the opposition (incl the use of the Reds' sports psychologist!). This all goes to my opinion that Link manages, supports and directs Cooper very well, and this same quality of guidance (or supervision) is not as evident in Deans' oversight of Cooper. I know I am a card-carrying Deans sceptic and ditto major fan of Link's, but I think there is now good data to support this argument from this year's Tests that closely abutted QC (Quade Cooper)'s big S15 games, and I don't think the old 'super rugby is a world apart from Test rugby' theory invalidates it.
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Makes you wonder why did the Tahs let him go...........and what he's doing for the next 4 years.......
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
grievous said:
Hasnt really done much this international season, goalkicking poor but then we dont produce them anymore and dont rely on winning games with kicks. The fact that Deans swaps the team round defensivley due to his percievced weakness in defense is down right disgraceful. Get a tackle bag, take him out and make him hit it for hours and hours, its no Gridiron for offense and deeeefense, no more passengers thanks, the Wallabies has plenty
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In my long rugby life Australia has only had 2 reliable goal kickers: M LYnagh and M Burke so I would venture we've never produced them and our attitude is that goals are a bonus
 
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FairWeatherAussie

Ted Fahey (11)
To answer the original question, is he a good or great player, anyone who is in the top 2 or 3 players is in my mind a great player. You don't get to be one of the top three by just being good! He is definitely a great player. Flawed and imperfect but great never-the-less.

If you mean it in terms of is he one of the Greats. Well no, not yet. He's not even number one in his position in the world. But come back in ten years time and ask that question.
 
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FairWeatherAussie

Ted Fahey (11)
As far as Quade being hidden in defense I have nothing against that. Graham Henry refused to pick Shane Williams for Wales because he didn't want to see the diminutive Welshman being literally run over by Jonu Lomu and Ilk. Once he left the next coach selected Williams and created a defensive pattern to hide him in defense. He's been easily the best and most consistently dangerous back in NH since then, and even arguably the world (with a lot of competition from Habana, Cocopops etc).

My point is what is wrong with hiding Quade in defense? That's what good coaches do, try to neutralize their own weaknesses and play to their strengths.
 
J

Jumpers

Guest
Mr. Cooper is nothing more than a show pony and has only signed untill 2012 after that I suspect he'll switch to rugby league.
Probably will end up with the Broncos! Hes fortunate hes got some very good players around him.
 
L

Linus

Guest
Simple response to this is good, not great. To me a great does more than one thing extraordinary. Cooper does one thing extraordinary and some things well and is getting better at the kicking and option taking, defensive liability add up to not close.
 
AngrySeahorse

AngrySeahorse

Peter Sullivan (51)
Jumpers said:
Mr. Cooper is nothing more than a show pony and has only signed untill 2012 after that I suspect he'll switch to rugby league.
Probably will end up with the Broncos! Hes fortunate hes got some very good players around him.
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I agree with you that he'll probably go to league but thats about all I agree with.
 
Reddy!

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
I saw Quade Cooper put on at least 2 dominant tackles against the USA, and I was barely watching the game. And nobody is a "great" rugby player at 23 years of age. If he sticks with rugby for the rest of his career he could be considered a great player
 
Swarley

Swarley

Bob Loudon (25)
Reddy! said:
I saw Quade Cooper put on at least 2 dominant tackles against the USA, and I was barely watching the game. And nobody is a "great" rugby player at 23 years of age. If he sticks with rugby for the rest of his career he could be considered a great player
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Mark Ella? Jonah Lomu?
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
da_grubster said:
it was mainly a tongue on cheek reference to the Bledisloe in Wgtn when he won the game with the last kick. I didnt realise he had kicked that many goals for the Wobs!
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the story there is that we were given the penalty and he nominated to kick for goal before realising that the kicker he was intending to throw the ball to had left the field....so he just plonked it down and kicked it himself
I would never belittle anything Nobody did - great player, great captain, great cricketer, great golfer, great kicker but he wasn't a regular
 
Ash

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Inside Shoulder said:
the story there is that we were given the penalty and he nominated to kick for goal before realising that the kicker he was intending to throw the ball to had left the field....so he just plonked it down and kicked it himself
I would never belittle anything Nobody did - great player, great captain, great cricketer, great golfer, great kicker but he wasn't a regular
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If I remember correctly, Eales was the regular kicker for the Reds for a few seasons, and was the first-choice kicker for the Wallabies in a few games too. RugbyReg could correct me if I'm wrong...
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Ash said:
If I remember correctly, Eales was the regular kicker for the Reds for a few seasons, and was the first-choice kicker for the Wallabies in a few games too. RugbyReg could correct me if I'm wrong...
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66 conversions and 80 penalties for the REds - 66 conversions is about 11 seasons for the Reds ;-)
 
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