Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Quick Hands]

We have a lot to thank Professionalism in sport for, but we also have a lot that we can blame on it with the biggest one being: When did junior sport stop being fun. The answer i think is when junior sports administrator, parents, coaches, etc, etc started to think of it as an arm of elite professional sport. When we were younger we trained for Rugby/Cricket, whatever sport but it was nothing like what the kids do today. You went down to the local park passed the footy around and had fun with your mate and Mr Smith (your best mates dad) coached the team. Somewhere in that hour you learnt something about the sport u were training for. Training and playing is now a very serious business 4 times a week, weight sessions, diet etc, etc and with that comes huge expectations, if we let them be kids or they let themselves be kids maybe more of them would be playing the game. I know it's a simple view but i've tried to convince myself I'm wrong and i'm struggling.

You've nailed it with this post. I am in 100% agreement with your sentiments. There are many boys who only now only play 1 sport - they spend their off-season training for their only sport. I know a boy who is just starting Year 12 and he has had 2 weeks off rugby training in 2013 and has now started training for 2014. He's played village rugby since minis, age group rep teams, school rep teams and NGS and now JGC.

This is madness, but if the kids say they'd like a break, they get a long break (i.e. don't come back). This is not specific to rugby, in fact league is worse.

And we wonder why 2 Manly village clubs had to combine to get a team in 14s this year?

 

[Quick Hands]

As for training and committment, it may well be at a more expanded rate but read what Bradman did to practice for cricket. Before anyone gets in there can be excepts such as Doug Walters and his training

The difference being that Bradman essentially trained himself and controlled when he wanted a break. He also played tennis and some other sports, in fact he took about a year off cricket in his teens to concentrate on tennis if my memory of my visit to the Bradman museum serves me correctly.

There have been a number of studies which have shown that boys and girls actually benefit from being exposed to a range of sports in their formative years rather than early specialisation. 2 or 3 have been posted over on the scholarship thread in the past few months.

 

[S'UP]

You've nailed it with this post. I am in 100% agreement with your sentiments. There are many boys who only now only play 1 sport - they spend their off-season training for their only sport. I know a boy who is just starting Year 12 and he has had 2 weeks off rugby training in 2013 and has now started training for 2014. He's played village rugby since minis, age group rep teams, school rep teams and NGS and now JGC.

This is madness, but if the kids say they'd like a break, they get a long break (i.e. don't come back). This is not specific to rugby, in fact league is worse.

And we wonder why 2 Manly village clubs had to combine to get a team in 14s this year?

Further to this I was at a GPS school recently and had the horror of watching the 2nd's and 1st's get ready, my horror came from the fact that the majority of the boys spent an age with the strapper, getting knees, shoulders, elbows, and any other part of their bodies strapped. I couldn't believe it what are we doing to these kids at 17.

 

[Quick Hands]

Further to this I was at a GPS school recently and had the horror of watching the 2nd's and 1st's get ready, my horror came from the fact that the majority of the boys spent an age with the strapper, getting knees, shoulders, elbows, and any other part of their bodies strapped. I couldn't believe it what are we doing to these kids at 17.

The number of boys who have had shoulder and knee reconstructions as young as 14 years of age is unbelieveable. Are young bodies meant to be put through this during the growth years?

 

[S'UP]

The number of boys who have had shoulder and knee reconstructions as young as 14 years of age is unbelieveable. Are young bodies meant to be put through this during the growth years?

Not according to every physio and Dr I've ever spoken to.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

our obsession with size for size's sake - achieved in the gym and not much use anywhere else

 

[Quick Hands]

We pile more and more pressure on young sportsmen and women, make them train longer and harder, limit their ability to play more than one sport and at the same time participation figures are declining across all sports in teenage years. Am I missing something, or does there appear to be a connection here?

It hits rugby more than many sports as our numbers are so small at the beginning, when boys drop out it makes some of our competitions unviable.

 

[Ted S]

We have a lot to thank Professionalism in sport for, but we also have a lot that we can blame on it with the biggest one being: When did junior sport stop being fun. The answer i think is when junior sports administrator, parents, coaches, etc, etc started to think of it as an arm of elite professional sport. When we were younger we trained for Rugby/Cricket, whatever sport but it was nothing like what the kids do today. You went down to the local park passed the footy around and had fun with your mate and Mr Smith (your best mates dad) coached the team. Somewhere in that hour you learnt something about the sport u were training for. Training and playing is now a very serious business 4 times a week, weight sessions, diet etc, etc and with that comes huge expectations, if we let them be kids or they let themselves be kids maybe more of them would be playing the game. I know it's a simple view but i've tried to convince myself I'm wrong and i'm struggling.

This really hits the nail on the head. I look at a lot of sports, especially RL and RU and many elite participants are athletes and not footballers. Too many footballers are being lost due to size.
To add to this so many times the average competent kid playing football gets ignored and left behind. This is backed up by a lot of the discussion here which is heavily biased towards the high performers.
If we start putting efforts and not just lip service back into little Joe average and his mate Tommy terrible as well as Sammy superstar then the game would grow.

 

[Runner]

Well set out s'up.

Kids can still do that if they like.

I think that at the higher levels due to advances made in Olympic sports via sports medicine etc that this has lead to that being applied further down the line.

In some ways this is beneficial as now the coaches in most cases have training, use physios to advice on training and injury management. Its basic WH&S.

Nice to go back to the days when I would ride a bike like an idiot and enjoy the breeze in my face. Now I have a helmet and all the other gear.

 

[Lee Grant]

I wrote a bit about the thread subject in a blog of the Junior Gold Cup on page 2.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/new-aussie-competitions-part-i-junior-gold-cup/

If you have any comments please make them in the blog.

Thanks

LG
.

 

[BeastieBoy]

The juniors drop off in the older age groups because they have hit adolescence and their school sports competition is taking too much out of them physically and they can't back up on the Sunday.Then change their competition to Wednesday evening. Also Ted S above is write the focus has been a top down approach and still is. We have to help the club district competition so they can help their juniors. I don't see how ripping out 200k from our clubs in licence fees to prop up the ARU helps our clubs and their juniors. How does it help either then to parachute in all these hundreds of players into this comp even if some may be notionally assigned to your club area. Where is he incentive for the shuteplayer who is also competing with 2 other teams for a position. How does ths reward his loyalty and training?

 

[BeastieBoy]

From a Sydney perspective you need a strong Shute shield to have a strong club and district competition and to have the money to go to the juniors. The shute shield needed to come up with their own solution. Leaving it to the ARU has given them something that does not help district football. The clubs will not make money from this. It will not breed and build on generations of loyalty from many families. It has just made clubs the fourth tier.the ARU will make any money.this will make juniors even worse.juniors and their parents know that to have the opportunity of representing they have to get on a pathway. The opportunity to build a pathway for club juniors dies at adolescence and in easts case changing demographics. Easts need a strong shute shield to make money to fund expansion juniors teams in paddington etc. to drag in kids from inner city and woollmooloo etc. unfortunately ground hire is expensive in our area.
Ute

 

[Dave Beat]

Speaking to a kiwi the other week, not sure how it is now but through his schooling he said - there was no junior clubs, it was all school boy rugby.
Then from school it was U19 and clubs were ensuring players flowed to clubs. Rugby is a culture over there though, so a tough comparison.

Some kids can only play school or club at the moment.

If you could change things without any restrictions (CAS / GPS / CHS / ETC.) what would / could a complete overhaul of junior rugby look like.

So with the ARU on board what would it look like, could it work?

 

[Druid]

The problem is the decline in numbers for the older age groups for club Rugby. Take for instance a team that I coach, which only has 5 kids which go to Schools that play Rugby on a Saturday. If the U16s/U17s competition declines to the point of non-existence do we tell the other 15 kids in that team to not play Rugby for a couple of years (go a play Rugby League for 2 years) then come back and play Colts. For this to even be a chance of happening in Rugby heartland is a very sad indictment on the state of Rugby. Not sure what the answer is as Schoolboy Rugby will not be moved from the weekends. Do we therefore ask the parents when we recruit 6 years olds into the clubs, will you child be going to a Private Rugby playing school, if not then move on Rugby is not the game for you in Sydney.......

 

[Druid]

The main point of my post above is we must find a way to ensure non schoolboy competition continues all the way through to Colts at the highest standard possible so that we sill have a avenue/pathway available for the kids who want to play Rugby but do not go to a Private Rugby playing school. To limit the opportunities in Rugby in the U15s/U16s/U17s to just Private Rugby paying schools in Sydney would be nothing short of criminal. We must generate the demand to ensure this competition continues. Maybe we should add another Colts stream to subbies and make it an U17s competition?

 

[Runner]

The government schools are where a lot of sport is dying not just rugby. teachers are saying no to outside school time sport so kids don't play unless their parents take them to a weekend club if one exists or it has teams in those age groups.

They have PE lessons instead up to year 10 and then can opt out of sport.

Some private school are now also diversifying with the introduction of AFL

 

[Dave Beat]

Very short via phone.

Junior Rugby solely through schools, either strong stand alone or zone reps, A's, B's, B's etc.

With the support of the ARU, the Shute Shield / 3T entities run an Auskick type program through the schools really promoting it through all age groups.

Maybe some of the Super Wallaby players could even coach, or be involved in coaching.

 

[papabear]

Private schools introducing AFL before league is strange but ok.

AFL is taking a hold in mainly private school areas ie north shore and easts.

I suppose to union/private schools the enemy of my enemy is my friend but in the end I don't think introducing AFL into private schools will hurt league one bit it will just continue to march union to oblivion.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

Dave Beat on Wednesday commented his Kiwi friend said that back in his day teenage rugby was school based, he wasn't sure if it is like that now.

I have a nephew who lives in North Auckland.
Currently there is just one comp in teenage junior rugby union - secondary school age across the board in NZ generally.
The clubs e.g. North Harbour club have subjuniors until U13s. From U14s onwards the secondary schools have their own comp - private and public/government schools play each other every Saturday morning in a secondary schools comp. It starts at U14s because 'high school' starts at the equivalent of our Yr 8 (students in NZ start school on their 5th birthday as standard and finish in Yr 13).
The school teams are graded and also weight ratified e.g. U14 & U52kg, or U15 & 45kg or less, or U16 & 60kg or less etc. If you weigh more you play up a year/grade.
1st IV is U19s.

The high school teams train after school on their school grounds and the coaches are teachers. Even public/government schools have excellent ovals with rugby posts. (Public/government schools are better resourced full-stop in NZ than in NSW, or other Australian states, as the government spend on education is higher in NZ. Tony?
The schools in NZ are ranked according to the socio-economic ranking of the students/parents not the resources the schools have)

Reps - the Rep teams in each secondary age group are chosen from all the school teams and they play about five games at the END of the normal season. So games start about the first Saturday after the normal season finishes e.g. first Saturday in September. They play other Rep teams from around Auckland and the northern part of the North Island.
I'm sure it is extremely prestigious to get into a Rep team with the number of players available and only 23 spots.

So then after high school U20s are colts reserves and U21 are colts.

 

[Done that]

Private schools introducing AFL before league is strange but ok.

AFL is taking a hold in mainly private school areas ie north shore and easts.

I suppose to union/private schools the enemy of my enemy is my friend but in the end I don't think introducing AFL into private schools will hurt league one bit it will just continue to march union to oblivion.

AFL has paid schools to allow it's introduction into them.