Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
????????
Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Isn't it supposed to be an elite pathway? Or have I misunderstood?
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
I hope so.
It should be a broad based development program.
I hoped we had decided picking winners at 16 was a fucking joke.
I had assumed the solution was not to pick winners at 14 instead.
It should be a broad based development program.
I hoped we had decided picking winners at 16 was a fucking joke.
I had assumed the solution was not to pick winners at 14 instead.
CatchnPass
Vay Wilson (31)
Bang on QH. Even amongst Gordon reps, the vast majority of last years 13 yr olds did not try out for JGC - the gap with growing boys is usually too large. There are a number of PI boys from last years 13s who made the JGC squad, but they would not look out of place, size wise, in the u17s. Assuming the same holds true for 17s, the loss of 16s nat champs is a major speed hump (pothole/dead end?) on the pathway
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
There are 3 schools of thought:
Yes
No
Don't know..
There are an equal number of posters in each of the first 2 who support the JGC with equal vehemence identifying it as achieving goals consistent with their preferred view.
There are some posters who have managed to straddle the first two with conviction.
I'm half in the third category: I know what it is but I don't know if that is what was intended.
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
your 3 option assumption is flawed - the growing dogma of this thread is growing a 4th option - don't care!
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
The Junior Gold Cup (JGC) is a national long term talent development and competition program at U15 and U17 age levels. The truly national nature of the JGC competition provides players, coaches, administrators and match officials with the opportunity to be involved in high levels of representative rugby programming and development at a National level on an annual basis whilst maintaining local/regional representation.
The JGC program is an evolution of the Junior Gold Program conducted over the past two years and is a key part of Australian Rugby’s “Pathway to Gold” that will provide talented players an opportunity to compete against the best in their age group across Australia.
(my bold)
http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/PathwaytoGold/JuniorGoldCup.aspx
All highly desirable, however, I still question the timing, which seems to have had the unintended (?) consequence of further diminishing the number of boys playing village club rugby.
I was talking to some other rugby dads this morning and the unanimous view at our little chat was that village club rugby should finish at 14s and from 15s onwards it should be run at a district level as part of the colts programme.
The JGC program is an evolution of the Junior Gold Program conducted over the past two years and is a key part of Australian Rugby’s “Pathway to Gold” that will provide talented players an opportunity to compete against the best in their age group across Australia.
(my bold)
http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/PathwaytoGold/JuniorGoldCup.aspx
All highly desirable, however, I still question the timing, which seems to have had the unintended (?) consequence of further diminishing the number of boys playing village club rugby.
I was talking to some other rugby dads this morning and the unanimous view at our little chat was that village club rugby should finish at 14s and from 15s onwards it should be run at a district level as part of the colts programme.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
+++++++
Shane Smeltz
Fred Wood (13)
Or do as they do in NZ, from 13s and over have a High School Saturday morning comp involving public, private, and Catholic schools in the local or regional area.
At the end of the normal season, a short Rep season with the best boys from the region picked from the high schools.
This system seems to work well for them.... #All Blacks
At the end of the normal season, a short Rep season with the best boys from the region picked from the high schools.
This system seems to work well for them.... #All Blacks
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
If so many parents can seen the logic of Under <insert age group> being part of a Colts programme, why does it not happen?
Colts and SJRU to get together and if it means District Colts teams (coached, administered, and registered) are running teams in a SJRU organised competition so be it. The Village club model no longer works at Under 15's and above in with the declining number of kids playing outside schools across Sydney at that level.
Colts and SJRU to get together and if it means District Colts teams (coached, administered, and registered) are running teams in a SJRU organised competition so be it. The Village club model no longer works at Under 15's and above in with the declining number of kids playing outside schools across Sydney at that level.
Brainstrust
Watty Friend (18)
That concept certainly makes some sense. Actually if the 15's can still offer a pathway from club / zone/ syd to NSW for th e15's then that age group would still sit fine with club. And to honest the pressure that everyone goes on about school sstopping 15's from playing club is rubish. There is some in the 16's, not really the 15's. So a district comp run by the SJRU for the 16's would provide a comp for those boys, and potentially create a chance for colts and grade clubs to connect with their juniors and transition them through from there. The squads could be enlarged from the 23, with rules around how many games players have to play in...etc..
Man on the hill
Alex Ross (28)
I can think of 3 reasons why village clubs will never surrender any teams or players to any other organisation. Newport, Hunters Hill & Beecroft! Anyone know the background / club allegiance of the current SJRU board?
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Ah MOTH, you've correctly identified why many things that should happen, don't. Petty empire building and political power struggles occupy the time of many junior sports officials.
This effect is magnified by the fact that rugby is a very small pond, so the idea of being a big fish in that pond appeals to some. The very thought of getting into a bigger pond, where they can't wield the same power is too much for these people to even consider.
This effect is magnified by the fact that rugby is a very small pond, so the idea of being a big fish in that pond appeals to some. The very thought of getting into a bigger pond, where they can't wield the same power is too much for these people to even consider.
Change is imminent, stage one is in place. In Warringah (although according to the SJRU not allowed to be called Warringah, or wear Warringah jerseys ?) the 16's and possibly the 15's have all the village clubs remnants of players joining in graded teams to keep boys on the paddock. All ready it is attracting more players back to rugby.
Stage 2 is to change the 16's and above to a Saturday so we can give more boys (rugby league) the opportunity to participate in the game. I realise certain people from North's and Gordon wont like this due to a large number of their player base being unavailable on Saturdays, but this needs to happen to grow the game and create strength in districts across Sydney.
Stage 2 is to change the 16's and above to a Saturday so we can give more boys (rugby league) the opportunity to participate in the game. I realise certain people from North's and Gordon wont like this due to a large number of their player base being unavailable on Saturdays, but this needs to happen to grow the game and create strength in districts across Sydney.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^ and build an onramp from kiddies rugby to grown up rugby on "the Pathway".
For too long Juniors to Colts was a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon. The Clubs just circled like a flock of vultures over the carcass of Schools Rugby and ignored their own backyards.
For too long Juniors to Colts was a chasm the size of the Grand Canyon. The Clubs just circled like a flock of vultures over the carcass of Schools Rugby and ignored their own backyards.
sarcophilus
Charlie Fox (21)
do these three clubs not have senior or opens teams including Colts and several grades, unless there is internal conflict at these clubs I would expect the retention of players through this wilderness period should be a positive thing
surely the "pathway" most players follow is not necessarily to super Rugby, the third tear fantasy, many not even Shute shield. there is a lot of reasons to play rugby right up to the time we are handed our protective golden shorts at Golden oldies.
Quick Hands
David Wilson (68)
Change is imminent, stage one is in place. In Warringah (although according to the SJRU not allowed to be called Warringah, or wear Warringah jerseys ?) the 16's and possibly the 15's have all the village clubs remnants of players joining in graded teams to keep boys on the paddock. All ready it is attracting more players back to rugby.
Stage 2 is to change the 16's and above to a Saturday so we can give more boys (rugby league) the opportunity to participate in the game. I realise certain people from North's and Gordon wont like this due to a large number of their player base being unavailable on Saturdays, but this needs to happen to grow the game and create strength in districts across Sydney.
Similar things happening at Manly FC. From 13s on, I understand that Roos, Harlequins and Raiders are running combined teams. Similarly they can't call themselves Manly, but the teams are taking turns with naming rights. For example last year the combined Roos/Harlequins 14s played under the Roos banner and this year the same team are playing under the Harlequins banner as 15s. Thankfully there are enough people who see the big picture to allow this to happen instead of grimly hanging on to their ever diminishing turf.
Forest have chosen to remain separate and run stand-alone teams only.
Stage 2 is to change the 16's and above to a Saturday so we can give more boys (rugby league) the opportunity to participate in the game. I realise certain people from North's and Gordon wont like this due to a large number of their player base being unavailable on Saturdays, but this needs to happen to grow the game and create strength in districts across Sydney.
Similar things happening at Manly FC. From 13s on, I understand that Roos, Harlequins and Raiders are running combined teams. Similarly they can't call themselves Manly, but the teams are taking turns with naming rights. For example last year the combined Roos/Harlequins 14s played under the Roos banner and this year the same team are playing under the Harlequins banner as 15s. Thankfully there are enough people who see the big picture to allow this to happen instead of grimly hanging on to their ever diminishing turf.
Forest have chosen to remain separate and run stand-alone teams only.
In the older age groups joint ventures happen naturally anyway. It just needs to be formalized and in the A comp called for what it is "a rep team".
In this years 16's age group there are 2 teams from Gordon one of which I hear intends to fold after the state champos. The same thing happened with a Newport team last year. After the State Champs the village comp for a great number of private school boys is not required as they are already getting a decent level of rugby and coaching at their school, they just use the comp as a second avenue to get to another rep system which includes zone, Sydney, and state teams. The SJRU has put in place some good rules to try and stop this happening, but it is easy to get around those rules. Those rules and changing to a Saturday from 16's up will go a long way toward ensuring the system is not being abused by people who are just not committed to the competition. It will also help grow the game in Sydney that is declining in these age groups. To grow the game we need to encourage more people into the game not just the boys who are already playing from fancy schools.
In this years 16's age group there are 2 teams from Gordon one of which I hear intends to fold after the state champos. The same thing happened with a Newport team last year. After the State Champs the village comp for a great number of private school boys is not required as they are already getting a decent level of rugby and coaching at their school, they just use the comp as a second avenue to get to another rep system which includes zone, Sydney, and state teams. The SJRU has put in place some good rules to try and stop this happening, but it is easy to get around those rules. Those rules and changing to a Saturday from 16's up will go a long way toward ensuring the system is not being abused by people who are just not committed to the competition. It will also help grow the game in Sydney that is declining in these age groups. To grow the game we need to encourage more people into the game not just the boys who are already playing from fancy schools.
Gary Owen III
Syd Malcolm (24)
Interesting comment - IIRC at an all districts meeting about a month ago an SJRU committee member with Hunters Hill affiliation proposed to all the districts that the opens or u17's be moved to the premiership clubs. It received support from those in attendance and was being taken to the NSW board to try to enable from the top.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
^^^^ A brave move. Hopefully this will be embraced by the NSW Board (I assume that this is NSW JRU board), and the NSWRU and SJRU and finally the SS premiership clubs. Are there too many governing bodies?
If some of the Prem clubs aren't interested, then invitations should be extended to Illawarra and the Coasties and Hunter combined Under 17's/18's to see if they can stand up a team to play as <insert club name> Colts 4ths. A fair bit of travel would be involved for the out of towners but the experience and player development would be awesome for them.
If some of the Prem clubs aren't interested, then invitations should be extended to Illawarra and the Coasties and Hunter combined Under 17's/18's to see if they can stand up a team to play as <insert club name> Colts 4ths. A fair bit of travel would be involved for the out of towners but the experience and player development would be awesome for them.
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