Continued decline in Sydney Junior Rugby

[Brainstrust]

So a $200 levy is about $8-10 on average per head on a team of 20-23?. Seriously, why everyone is so wound up about this is beyond me. The kids ( especially the forwards) would devour that and more at the BBQ and canteen. It would be different if the ARU had not cut its staff numbers, players have reportedly taken reductions in payments. The ARU still gave to run their development programs whether junior or senior. I have no issue at all paying a slight increase in my overall rego costs if it will help in some way towards the financial surety of the ARU. I will just have 1 less beer when I celebrate the wallabies beat the all blacks in Sydney this year. That should cover it.

 

[Dave Beat]

So a $200 levy is about $8-10 on average per head on a team of 20-23?. Seriously, why everyone is so wound up about this is beyond me. The kids ( especially the forwards) would devour that and more at the BBQ and canteen. It would be different if the ARU had not cut its staff numbers, players have reportedly taken reductions in payments. The ARU still gave to run their development programs whether junior or senior. I have no issue at all paying a slight increase in my overall rego costs if it will help in some way towards the financial surety of the ARU. I will just have 1 less beer when I celebrate the wallabies beat the all blacks in Sydney this year. That should cover it.

My take on it as well, an extra steak sanga for me each Saturday will assist with covering that small cost. I'd much rather cough up a little bit extra there and have my kids running around outside in a team than buying the latest game to play on the box.
Rugby $70.
Netball $100.

 

[Fat Cat]

you guys have missed the point

 

[Dave Beat]

you guys have missed the point

I know I haven't.

Significant work needs to go into Junior Rugby Development (not just in Sydney) - This has to comes from the ARU down through the StateRU, and in Sydney the Shute Shield teams.

Some great ideas have been posted on this very thread.

As for the $200, I can only say Bill has a better understanding of the financials than i do.

He did try offsetting the expense by insurance reductions, again I'm not aware of the net impact.

The way I'm looking at it - suck it up, it's there - kids are having fun, and hey if I can contribute to covering that expense by buying a steak sandwich - yeah i will.

Another one - guess what I can now take my boy to the Tah's games for $0, I might go to more games now and he can come along, he can even run on the turf after the game.


Again the $200 i don't like, but I'd pay $200 myself if it would g'tee another team.

 

[rams]

Agree with some of the comments regarding the $200.00 levy but I don't think I have coached a junior side yet that has had every kid paying registration or even full registration, most clubs will have hardship cases. Add to the fact that a lot of junior sides don't have a compliment of the full 23 man squad this levy becomes another financial burden to the village clubs trying to stay viable.
In this harsh financial climate sponsorship dollars aren't exactly easy to come by, lets face it most people sponsoring junior rugby do so for the love of the game not for financial reward, my business has sponsored club & district sides in the past & I have never received a call in relation to said sponsorship.
Further to the point as to which this thread is intended the junior numbers are looking down again, mini's numbers seem to be healthy but once again the drop off occurs at the older age groups.

 

[Gary Owen III]

I know I haven't.

Significant work needs to go into Junior Rugby Development (not just in Sydney) - This has to comes from the ARU down through the StateRU, and in Sydney the Shute Shield teams.

Some great ideas have been posted on this very thread.

As for the $200, I can only say Bill has a better understanding of the financials than i do.

He did try offsetting the expense by insurance reductions, again I'm not aware of the net impact.

The way I'm looking at it - suck it up, it's there - kids are having fun, and hey if I can contribute to covering that expense by buying a steak sandwich - yeah i will.

Another one - guess what I can now take my boy to the Tah's games for $0, I might go to more games now and he can come along, he can even run on the turf after the game.


Again the $200 i don't like, but I'd pay $200 myself if it would g'tee another team.

Like it or lump it - we will be paying a levy of some sort next year. And to be honest i dont think it will be a huge impost.

But the ARU have delivered this very badly - the financial position has been known for ages, but they choose to "announce" the levy 2 days before Christmas with no consultation with the stakeholders.

Yes the ARU did manage to get a saving of insurance (about $100k to NSW) but when NSW (then Vic) questioned the levy guess what happened - ARU simply withheld the development grant of $400k to NSW. So the net result is that NSW is short $300k (after insurance saving)& the ARU have still achieved their result yet NSW are now copping the burden.

Brainstrust said: ↑

So a $200 levy is about $8-10 on average per head on a team of 20-23?. Seriously, why everyone is so wound up about this is beyond me. The kids ( especially the forwards) would devour that and more at the BBQ and canteen. It would be different if the ARU had not cut its staff numbers, players have reportedly taken reductions in payments. The ARU still gave to run their development programs whether junior or senior. I have no issue at all paying a slight increase in my overall rego costs if it will help in some way towards the financial surety of the ARU. I will just have 1 less beer when I celebrate the wallabies beat the all blacks in Sydney this year. That should cover it.​

The team based levy is a horrible way to determine this fee. Sure as Brainstrust has said it is only $8-10 per head for a team of 20-23. But unfortunately not every team has 20-23 players. Under 6's have about 8-10 players = $20-25 per head. Why should the minis be paying more?

And what is the net result of this on some of our less financial clubs? Do we get to the stage where club have the situation where player numbers dictate that they need decide do they run one or two teams in an age group - and the decision is to run one as it is cheaper for the club.

The levy should be a player based one - this is fairer for everyone.

 

[S'UP]

Agree with some of the comments regarding the $200.00 levy but I don't think I have coached a junior side yet that has had every kid paying registration or even full registration, most clubs will have hardship cases. Add to the fact that a lot of junior sides don't have a compliment of the full 23 man squad this levy becomes another financial burden to the village clubs trying to stay viable.
In this harsh financial climate sponsorship dollars aren't exactly easy to come by, lets face it most people sponsoring junior rugby do so for the love of the game not for financial reward, my business has sponsored club & district sides in the past & I have never received a call in relation to said sponsorship.
Further to the point as to which this thread is intended the junior numbers are looking down again, mini's numbers seem to be healthy but once again the drop off occurs at the older age groups.

Mini's are looking soft in some areas, ages 12+ participation continues to fall, the clubs have to pay the $200 but the schools don't even though they continue to benefit from the pathway. Some clubs are that small now they cannot pay their lighting bill for training or their district contribution. IMO Penrith, Hawkesburry and Parramatta are just about finished as a junior areas, Eastwood and West Harbour aren't far behind. (my apologies to those areas) Very soon the only rugby being played West of the Gladesville bridge will be at The Kings School. I know the ARU has no money but I've lived in the Eastwood district for the past 12 years and my kids have been at public schools all that time and we have yet to see one ARU development officer, (I exaggerate here) but we have seen 100's of AFL and NRL development guys with first grade players in tow handing out gifts etc and running sport for the afternoon. Maybe some of the 800k they raise will go towards development officers? I'm guessing not, it will go into consolidated revenue and get lost in the debt.

DB in relation to the kids getting in free to TAHS games I agree it is a good idea but it believe it only applies to under 12's what do we do to keep the +12's interested in the game? I looked at tickets to the REDS v TAHS and I could get high quality seats (joke) (in the corner of the ground behind the dead ball line) for $128 for 2 Adults and my 3 kids (all over 12) thats not good value and the boy don't enjoy the game as they have to watch half of it on the big screen. What is the ARU doing to keep kids over 12 interested? Nothing. They are basically telling them to play rugby at a private school.

 

[Dave Beat]

1. I know the ARU has no money but I've lived in the Eastwood district for the past 12 years and my kids have been at public schools all that time and we have yet to see one ARU development officer, (I exaggerate here) but we have seen 100's of AFL and NRL development guys with first grade players in tow handing out gifts etc and running sport for the afternoon. Maybe some of the 800k they raise will go towards development officers? I'm guessing not, it will go into consolidated revenue and get lost in the debt.
2. DB in relation to the kids getting in free to TAHS games I agree it is a good idea but it believe it only applies to under 12's what do we do to keep the +12's interested in the game? I looked at tickets to the REDS v TAHS and I could get high quality seats (joke) (in the corner of the ground behind the dead ball line) for $128 for 2 Adults and my 3 kids (all over 12) thats not good value and the boy don't enjoy the game as they have to watch half of it on the big screen. What is the ARU doing to keep kids over 12 interested? Nothing. They are basically telling them to play rugby at a private school.

1. With regards to one, hopefully with the NRC model being put forward very shortly it tick all the boxes and we can all start banging on about the importance of number 1 above. You are right about the schools - but - last year Macquarie Bank put on a great development day out at Joeys - balls, and kicking tees were given away, and Super Players were there in numbers. All these kids already had rugby boots though - hence why I think same principal but do it with the schools. It might be 4 sports days in a row (4 weeks) that includes 10 schools all at the one park.
2. yes a step in the right direction, yes it is U12 - it is hard to tick all the boxes. Maybe it should be if you've signed with a Junior Rugby Club you get a pass to all Waratah games, and Shute Shield games. I'm not sure if kids have an age restriction with Shute Games or not - but if they get a pass that is theirs it gives them a reason to pester dad to go.

 

[S'UP]

1. With regards to one, hopefully with the NRC model be put forward very shortly it tick all the boxes and we can all start banging on about the importance of number 1 above. You are right about the schools - but - last year Macquarie Bank put on a great development day out at Joeys - balls, and kicking tees were given away, and Super Players were there in numbers. All these kids already had rugby boots though - hence why I think same principal but do it with the schools. It might be 4 sports days in a row (4 weeks) that includes 10 schools all at the one park.
2. yes a step in the right direction, yes it is U12 - it is hard to tick all the boxes. Maybe it should be if you've signed with a Junior Rugby Club you get a pass to all Waratah games, and Shute Shield games. I'm not sure if kids have an age restriction with Shute Games or not - but if they get a pass that is theirs it gives them a reason to pester dad to go.

In relation to 1, Joeys is hardly in need of a development day but that is very consistent with what the ARU plan, do something big in a rugby stronghold and it makes everything seem good. Just like the Wallabies training at TKS last year, it was a great experience for the TKS boys but did nothing to foster more rugby players.
2. All club Junior rugby players should get in free to every Rugby game be it Shute shield (districts supporting their juniors), Super (super supporting their districts) or Internationals (ARU supporting everyone) I only say club as they are the ones paying the bill(s) (pun intended) or so it would seem.

 

[Dave Beat]

In relation to 1, Joeys is hardly in need of a development day but that is very consistent with what the ARU plan, do something big in a rugby stronghold and it makes everything seem good. Just like the Wallabies training at TKS last year, it was a great experience for the TKS boys but did nothing to foster more rugby players.

2. All club Junior rugby players should get in free to every Rugby game be it Shute shield (districts supporting their juniors), Super (super supporting their districts) or Internationals (ARU supporting everyone) I only say club as they are the ones paying the bill(s) (pun intended) or so it would seem.

I should have put in there it had nothing to do with Joeys at all, kids from all over the place were in attendance. They had large enough grounds - I'd say at a guess maybe 700+ kids. I referenced that as a model only that could be put to the public schools. Maybe school grounds are cheaper than council grounds - I'm not sure about the logistics here though.

Agree about all kids getting in free as well, I referenced Shute Shield as I reckon the kids would want to go back again and again if they new about it. I'm suggesting by giving the kids the pass that can give dad the kick he needs to take them, last year I used some kids to drag there parents down at Manly oval. Kids had a ball, and parents gee this isn't to bad lets do it more often.

I'm agreeing with you, but you must remember not all dads are as passionate about rugby than the punters who post here. In these cases taking advantage of the kids can be a better approach - if the boy wants to go and enjoys it dads may take their kids rather than sitting at home, or playing golf etc.

 

[Fat Cat]

the ARU and the NSWRU have been pumping programs and dollars into the western suburbs rugby league heartland trying to get a slice of the pie for years. Without a lot of success I would think.

you need to create a pathway via district rugby as discussed earlier in this thread for everybody. Those kids and their parents in Sydney need to be confident there is a meaningful pathway via their local district club to greater honours. That way you broaden the player base across Sydney

If you build it they will come !

and it will cost bugger all !

 

[Dave Beat]

the ARU and the NSWRU have been pumping programs and dollars into the western suburbs rugby league heartland trying to get a slice of the pie for years. Without a lot of success I would think.

you need to create a pathway via district rugby as discussed earlier in this thread for everybody. Those kids and their parents in Sydney need to be confident there is a meaningful pathway via their local district club to greater honours. That way you broaden the player base across Sydney

If you build it they will come !

and it will cost bugger all !

Mums often have their little treasures play Soccor, or Aussie Rules because it is non contact and they are safe.

I wonder how many non union parents are aware that;
U6, & U7, is only 2 handed tag on the shorts.
That they are eased into contact in the 8's.

 

[S'UP]

the ARU and the NSWRU have been pumping programs and dollars into the western suburbs rugby league heartland trying to get a slice of the pie for years. Without a lot of success I would think.

you need to create a pathway via district rugby as discussed earlier in this thread for everybody. Those kids and their parents in Sydney need to be confident there is a meaningful pathway via their local district club to greater honours. That way you broaden the player base across Sydney

If you build it they will come !

and it will cost bugger all !

Where are they spending all this money? I hope it isn't in the sports highs because their focus is clearly league.
Speaking of the pathway does anyone know exactly what it is anymore, with JGC, NGS, Schools, Club, NRC, Shute Shield, Waratah development squads, etc, etc?

 

[S'UP]

Mums often have their little treasures play Soccor, or Aussie Rules because it is non contact and they are safe.

I wonder how many non union parents are aware that;
U6, & U7, is only 2 handed tag on the shorts.
That they are eased into contact in the 8's.

Rugby has a perception problem, have you ever noticed that whenever there is a neck injury the press always refer to Rugby i.e. Today a rugby player was taken to hospital. regardless of if the player was playing rugby league. I would say better PR people at the NRL.

 

[Dave Beat]

Where are they spending all this money? I hope it isn't in the sports highs because their focus is clearly league.
Speaking of the pathway does anyone know exactly what it is anymore, with JGC, NGS, Schools, Club, NRC, Shute Shield, Waratah development squads, etc, etc?

Interesting question, and where is the first (U6's?) and last step (when you head off to Japan after a distinguished career representing Aust?)

Rugby is a fantastic game where you can see the world, as an amateur, or a professional.

I'd love to see an U21's (U20's) NRC team to capture the kids leaving school (U16, 17, 18,19) all get a crack.

 

[Fat Cat]

rugby pathway

http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/PathwaytoGold.aspx

 

[Fat Cat]

record investment in rugby league

http://www.nrl.com/nrls-record-investment-in-rugby-league/tabid/10874/newsid/76434/default.aspx

In addition, at least $120 million will be put into a “growth fund” over four years to be used to invest directly in the strategic priorities of the game from grassroots to NRL clubs, fans and members, stadia and infrastructure, and commercial operations that generate more returns for investment.

 

[Dave Beat]

rugby pathway

http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/PathwaytoGold.aspx

I'd like to see that much effort put into making it happen, looks good, and possibly cost a bit - but it ain't working
KIS will work better Keep It Simple.

 

[Fat Cat]

just thinking. other codes ie. AFL, NRL encourage fans to love their club, rugby doesn't really do that do they

 

[Quick Hands]

So a $200 levy is about $8-10 on average per head on a team of 20-23?. Seriously, why everyone is so wound up about this is beyond me.

We're getting so wound up about it because it is wrong in principle and unfair in practice.

If people can't see that it's wrong that a team of 6 year olds has to pay a $200 levy to help support players earning north of $100,000, and if people can't see that it's unfair that clubs struggling to pay basic expenses must pay the levy but teams at private schools who can afford Directors of Rugby and Sports Scientists won't, then it's no wonder rugby is shrinking.

When something is wrong and unfair, it's wrong and unfair - trying to minimise it by equating it to sausages is disingenuous in the extreme.

Seriously, is this the best that our highly paid administrators can come up with.

I say again a levy of this sort is a lazy and unfair way to raise money.

EDIT: As an aside Australian super rugby teams fly to and from NZ in business class, while NRL clubs fly economy there and back. League has just announced a $200 million investment in development, while rugby imposes a $200 levy on 6 year olds.