Concussions and Protecting Our Players

[Brumby Runner]

The real issue is tackling technique. I am amazed by how many professional rugby players continue to make a tackle with their heads placed in front of the tackled player. From my experience and impressions over the years, that is the single most likely cause of head knocks and concussion in a tackle situation. The new law will not improve the situation while poor tackling technique is rife.

 

[Shiggins]

I brought this up when Arnold got red carded. He is a massive guy. Janquies was quite low as he passed the ball and is already short. Arnold is hunched over running at full pelt to try and make a dominant tackle around the chest. He gets it slightly wrong because of multiple reasons and it's a red card, the game is ruined. Everyone will say Arnold should of tried to tackle him lower but that's stupid because this is rugby and he tried to make a dominant hit. I said that's going forward they will end up having to not allow dominant tackles anymore. You all thought I was stupid. And now this no tackling above the nipple line. So good, we will have guys tackle below the nipple, slide up to the chest and get panelised. The only way to stop it is to make it below the waist but this is ruining the game. If it's below the waist guys will not slide up towards the head. It's bloody rugby it's a contact sport and people are going to get concussions. The guys who play the game know this and accept this

If someone purposely tries to take someone's head off or shoulder someone in the head or throws an arm out and collects the head it's a red card and we are all happy with that. Changing the law to below the nipple isn't going to change people who are already breaking the rules and who know when they do it there gonna get a card already.

We need to teach the referees to use some common sense. Just like faignas red card on the weekend for the Brumbies . It was handbags and is never a red card. There is no difference to that and the bulls player who comes and slaps him on the face 3 times. Both contact to the Head and if force has nothing to do with it as everyone is saying than a slap to the chin is a red card as well.

Have some bloody common sense.

What might happen is by making it tackle below the chest we will see tackles that are slightly above the chest where in the past would have been the head. Because now this is not dangerous it shouldn't be a card it shouldn't be a penalty for the first offence. It should be a free kick. This would keep the game fast and somehow maybe end up retaining some relevance in this hectic Australian sporting market.
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[Derpus]

Laugh it off Derpus, but I cannot honestly see Beale learning to bend his knees and to bend at the waist to attempt to make a tackle. No doubt there are others in the same boat, but he is just about the most high profile player in the game who presently has many issues with his tackling efforts. I can see it becoming more difficult for the likes of him to adapt to the new requirements, if they come in at the higher levels of the game.

Perhaps, it would be pretty dumb though. When was the last time he got pinged for a dangerous tackle? Yeah he sucks at tackling but it's not dangerous.

Tucked away in the announcement was something about players being cautioned for not bending at the waist which to my mind is encouraging people to tackle head first thereby increasing the chances of getting it wrong & copping a knee or other body part.

This. All you'd have to do to get someone sent off is run at them with the ball, bent over & head first. All the defender can do is wave you through, or try and chop your knees. Seems safe.

 

[The Honey Badger]

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Rugby-leaders-ponder-changes-to-limit-injuries-13092746.php

Interesting article. Think it's only a matter of time fir rule changes after the U20 trial.

Didn't know about Warburton, anyone know more?

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[Quick Hands]

https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Rugby-leaders-ponder-changes-to-limit-injuries-13092746.php

Interesting article. Think it's only a matter of time fir rule changes after the U20 trial.

Didn't know about Warburton, anyone know more?

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The biggest issue by far facing contact sports and one which many sports are finding hard to come to terms with.

 

[The Honey Badger]

The biggest issue by far facing contact sports and one which many sports are finding hard to come to terms with.

It's actually an opportunity.

If they can make the sport safer and reduce the incidence of head/neck injuries (without completely changing the fundamentals of the game) they will instantly grow the game as it will have a competitive advantage over other contact sports.

I would like to know what research or development work has been done with protective sports wear. Surely this is the key.

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[Quick Hands]

It's actually an opportunity.

If they can make the sport safer and reduce the incidence of head/neck injuries (without completely changing the fundamentals of the game) they will instantly grow the game as it will have a competitive advantage over other contact sports.

I would like to know what research or development work has been done with protective sports wear. Surely this is the key.

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There's been quite a bit of research on protective equipment. Basically, headgear is ineffective as concussion is an internal brusing of the brain caused by the brain rattling around inside the skull after rapid deceleration. Head gear protects against fractured skull type injuries and skin wounds only.

The only way is to eliminate contact with the head - WR (World Rugby) are doing this by reducing the level of the tackle to the nipple line (causing mcuh wailing and nashing of teeth from those who see it as a sissy-type reaction). In tandem with this all players suspected of being concussed need to be removed from the field for assessment - this is also being done.

There's been some hiccups and resistance along the way, but rugby seems to be doing a pretty good job (compared to other sports). We just need to keep relying on medical experts and being conservative in our approach to contact with the head and concussion assessments.

http://theconversation.com/wearing-...the-risk-of-serious-injury-new-research-84887

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/2/159

http://thejns.org/doi/pdf/10.3171/2016.1.FOCUS15615

 

[The Honey Badger]

There's been quite a bit of research on protective equipment. Basically, headgear is ineffective as concussion is an internal brusing of the brain caused by the brain rattling around inside the skull after rapid deceleration. Head gear protects against fractured skull type injuries and skin wounds only.

The only way is to eliminate contact with the head - WR (World Rugby) are doing this by reducing the level of the tackle to the nipple line (causing mcuh wailing and nashing of teeth from those who see it as a sissy-type reaction). In tandem with this all players suspected of being concussed need to be removed from the field for assessment - this is also being done.

There's been some hiccups and resistance along the way, but rugby seems to be doing a pretty good job (compared to other sports). We just need to keep relying on medical experts and being conservative in our approach to contact with the head and concussion assessments.

http://theconversation.com/wearing-...the-risk-of-serious-injury-new-research-84887

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/38/2/159

http://thejns.org/doi/pdf/10.3171/2016.1.FOCUS15615

Is that true? Wearing of headgear is mandatory in Japan.



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[Quick Hands]

Is that true? Wearing of headgear is mandatory in Japan.



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It's what every piece of research that I have read says. A lot of private primary schools make it mandatory as well. It keeps worried mothers happy though.

 

[BAR]

Is that true? Wearing of headgear is mandatory in Japan.

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Did the ARU's Smart Rugby course recently and it clearly identifies RU research showing no benefit for concussion arising from wearing headgear. As noted by QH, headgear can't stop your brain sloshing around inside your skull. That doesn't mean there's no benefit from headgear; it can reduce superficial (but very bloody) cuts and knocks and take some of the impact away from hits that might cause a fracture. But, my boy's primary reasoning for continuing to wear headgear is much simpler - protection from the cauliflower ear!

 

[The Honey Badger]

I would like to see a trial over an extended period where every player on the field wears Head gear, and compare that to the incidence of head injury in players not wearing head gear. If all players wear it, in head clashes you have double the padding. Logic says it's got to help.

And have they ever looked at padding the hips?

The head knock Michael Wells copped on Saturday is a pretty common one. And potentially a very serious injury. Padding may help mitigate injury in hip on head clash.

I just reckon lots more could be done with protective sports wear. Perhaps the starting point would be question why the 1cm limit on padding?

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[The Honey Badger]

Did the ARU's Smart Rugby course recently and it clearly identifies RU research showing no benefit for concussion arising from wearing headgear.

That being the case, why do players prone to concussion wear head gear?

Some classic examples come to mind; Flatley, Giteau, Barnes.

These players obviously think it helps to wear it.

On the flip side, because players prone to concussion tend to wear headgear, this may well skew the research.

This is why every player on the field needs to wear a head gear in order to properly access the benefit or otherwise of headgear.

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[Quick Hands]

I would like to see a trial over an extended period where every player on the field wears Head gear, and compare that to the incidence of head injury in players not wearing head gear. If all players wear it, in head clashes you have double the padding. Logic says it's got to help.

And have they ever looked at padding the hips?

The head knock Michael Wells copped on Saturday is a pretty common one. And potentially a very serious injury. Padding may help mitigate injury in hip on head clash.

I just reckon lots more could be done with protective sports wear. Perhaps the starting point would be question why the 1cm limit on padding?

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Read the articles in post #347. They answer many of your queries.

From the 3rd article

Outside the United States, there has been much study regarding the possible role of headgear in preventing concussions. In 2004, Rugby World Cup video footage was reviewed to show a statistically significant decrease in superficial head injury by those wearing rugby headgear.14 This was most prominent among forwards, who tend to be more physical. However, no reduction in concussion was noted. Marshall et al. reviewed protective equipment through 304 club-level players in New Zealand.20 Headgear again led to a statistically significant reduction in both ear and superficial scalp lacerations without concussion protection. Both scrum caps and mouth guards illustrated no statistically significant reduction in concussions.20 McIntosh performed a randomized controlled trial of rugby players in Australia with modified headgear in the 13- to 20-year-old age groups over a 2-year period. Comparison was made with the popular habit of not wearing headgear, standard available International Rugby Board headgear, and a new experimental headgear with added foam density. The intention-to-treat analysis showed no difference in the rates of head injury or concussion between controls and headgear arms. The final conclusion is that the board could not recommend modified headgear for reduction of concussions.

 

[The Honey Badger]

Some discussion on Qld GPS thread, some very serious spinal injuries to 2 boys. 1 will be in hospital in induced coma for weeks.

Anything they can do to illuminate these injuries from the game is a step in the right direction.

Hope the boy comes through and makes a full recovery

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[Strewthcobber]

Excellent series of articles demonstrating the research that World Rugby has been undertaking wit hregards to head injuries, some of the implications and what they plan/planned to do about it.

http://sportsscientists.com/2017/07/head-injuries-rugby-part-1-principle-high-level-view/
http://sportsscientists.com/2017/07/head-injuries-part-2-makes-tackle-risky/
http://sportsscientists.com/2017/08/head-injuries-rugby-part-3-key-evidence-law-change-advice/

 

[Strewthcobber]

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Pom RFU will trial "nipple line = tackle line" in the upcoming Championship (level below Premiership):

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/rfu-to-trial-lower-tackle-height-next-season/

I think this makes it almost inevitable that we'll see it rolled out at all levels some time after RWC 2019. My money's on the start of the NH season immediately after it & from 1/01/20 in SH.

I read somewhere that someone was about to start requiring their age-grade players to wear jerseys with a nipple-line on them which got me to thinking that surely two-tone jerseys would be far more helpful to the ref than just a line?

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
I'm kind of dreading this. I just can't picture rugby where contact higher than the nipple is illegal.

Standard method for carrying a ball into contact is to bend down low and drive through on an angle, using the defending player as your counterweight to stay upright. Usually leading with a shoulder which is well about said nipple line. How do you defend that? You could try for the leg chop but that's borderline illegal these days too.

Do you just let him through and try and tackle him round the waist as he passes?

It makes more sense for backs i suppose.

 

[The Honey Badger]

So, does anyone think Headgear may have assisted in this situation?

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[Gnostic]

That being the case, why do players prone to concussion wear head gear?



Some classic examples come to mind; Flatley, Giteau, Barnes.



These players obviously think it helps to wear it.



On the flip side, because players prone to concussion tend to wear headgear, this may well skew the research.



This is why every player on the field needs to wear a head gear in order to properly access the benefit or otherwise of headgear.



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Said players may well feel some positive reinforcement for themselves after having so many knocks, regardless of the actual research, a placebo effect if you will for the risk of further concussions.

Given the nature of the physical/fluid dynamics of the Skull/Brain wearing head gear and even helmets are not going to stop concussions and indeed there are some very persuasive arguments that some forms of headgear/padding actually make people reckless.