Cipriani

[Slim 293]

I would only go to the Espy for an international gig, but thankfully most bands I go to see either play at the Forum or the Northcote Social Club which are both much better venues.

I had to go to the Palais earlier in the year which is just the worst venue for rock gigs, and had drinks at the Espy beforehand. The main room had the same latino percussion group that have been playing there every Sunday for a decade, and a jug of Carlton was $20.

I tend to find that there is a Sydney like shallowness in some of those south Melbourne suburbs. These days the Espy doesn't have a very welcoming atmosphere.

This is why if I have to put up with wankers, I'd rather put up with the pretentious bohemian (but harmless) wankers of the northern suburbs, than the shallow aggressive wankers of the southern suburbs.

These are of course generalisations... I do have friends in St KIlda, but they always have to cross the Yarra if they want to meet up...

 

[daz]

Here he goes again....

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...-before-training/story-e6frf4qu-1226061974612

The story itself may not be all that bad. After all, both Oz cricket captain Michael Clarke and ex-AFL player Brendon Fevola will tell you that having a minor bingle in Melbourne is relatively easy. (Boom Tish! Thankyou, thankyou. You are a wonderful audience).

What drew me into the story is the inference that Cips was heading home in the wee hours of the morning. Again.

 

[RugbyReg]

What drew me into the story is the inference that Cips was heading home in the wee hours of the morning. Again.

nup

Cipriani collided with another car in Richmond on his way to training and arrived late.

 

[Ash]

18.

Colour me impressed.

A small part of me (baboom-tish) wishes I was a playboy sportsman in Melbourne (especially after the Buddy Franklin "race to 100" rumours). Or the UK - I hear it's not too hard for 37 year old married with 2 children football players to score either...

edit: And to go Bruce Ross on this, what can we infer from this quote in the article?

"He did have a nose to tail but I'm not sure what time it was ... he certainly exchanged names and addresses with the person involved

Well, hopefully he calls too after such an encounter.

 

[daz]

nup

I stand corrected. I'm obviously way too eager to see the bad side.....

 

[Bruce Ross]

edit: And to go Bruce Ross on this, what can we infer from this quote in the article?

"He did have a nose to tail but I'm not sure what time it was ... he certainly exchanged names and addresses with the person involved

Well, hopefully he calls too after such an encounter.

Not a lot of information to work with, Ash, so we have to try to read between the lines.

Note the words, "a nose to tail", rather than "noses to tails", a very important clue. The most logical explanation is that what is being described is a 69 in which one of the parties is free-loading. One party is obviously getting right into it. You can't get much closer than "nose to tail", while at the other end there is no reciprocity.

The additional information that the Cipster "certainly exchanged names and addresses with the person involved" would suggest to me that he was probably the one who had a good time, thus adding to the stereotype in this country of the Pommy free-loader.

Matt Burke would do well to study this article as an example of true rugby investigative journalism.

 

[Riptide]

Cipriani is not a big boozer at all. It seems the McQueen is attempting to portray him in that light and making much more out of it than is really necessary. Cips likes to go out but he doesn't guzzle beers or bubbly, go on a binge or anything close to it; he just likes women, and "hip" scenes, and likes to eat out. Nothing wrong with that as he is in his early 20's.

This "build a culture" bullshit is simply being used as a pointy stick to police Cips behaviour, and bring him to heel. Cips has simply rubbed McQueen the wrong way with some of his comments (about McQueen) who is using selective press leaks to first neuter and ultimately pave the way for jettisoning Cips (who already has instructed his agent to look for gigs in France). The Rebels have done a poor job with Cips; his off-field behaviour has NOT been that out of line but the wink & nod campaign from the Rebels suggest that he must have been really going wild. No true from what I've heard.

On another note, Cips on-field behaviour is way too much of the arrogant arsehole category. I've heard he can really get up your nose with his prima donna antics at times. He is just way too cool for school and not very coachable in that he doesn't take to criticism well unless he is really coddled & boosted (like the leadership team did at Wasps).

 

[daz]

Cipriani is not a big boozer at all. It seems the McQueen is attempting to portray him in that light and making much more out of it than is really necessary. Cips likes to go out but he doesn't guzzle beers or bubbly, go on a binge or anything close to it; he just likes women, and "hip" scenes, and likes to eat out. Nothing wrong with that as he is in his early 20's.

So he didn't steal that bottle of grog? He didn't ignore team directive on going out, twice? He is not, therefore, a disciplinary problem? Good to know this is all made up by Macqueen as a coaching tool to motivate.

This "build a culture" bullshit is simply being used as a pointy stick to police Cips behaviour, and bring him to heel. Cips has simply rubbed McQueen the wrong way with some of his comments (about McQueen) who is using selective press leaks to first neuter and ultimately pave the way for jettisoning Cips (who already has instructed his agent to look for gigs in France). The Rebels have done a poor job with Cips; his off-field behaviour has NOT been that out of line but the wink & nod campaign from the Rebels suggest that he must have been really going wild. No true from what I've heard.

The only poor job I can see is the hiring of this non-team following, serial offending, self-important prat in the first place.

He is just way too cool for school and not very coachable in that he doesn't take to criticism well unless he is really coddled & boosted (like the leadership team did at Wasps).

Yes, because dissing your team-mates, coaching staff and senior management is an excellent way to have 14 year old boys idolise your coolness, but not so good if you want to have, well, you know, a career.

Your honour, I call to the stand as a character witness that well known merry jokester and infinitely tolerable person of transgressions against protocol, Mr. Martin Johnson.

Riptide, all due respect, but there is an NRL membership winging its way to your door.

 

[Riptide]

Oh Puleeeez.. Even a modicum of research, a few calls into a player network, would have revealed that Cips is an arrogant little tosser. I was once told by a former team-mate of his, an English World Cup wining medal holder who is a really good guy and current coach of a Premiership team, that he thought Cipriani was a complete and absolute prick, a total tosser, and that Johnson would never put up with his shit. However, he also acknowledged that Wasps loved him. "They" (senior Wasps leadership.. Dallaglio, Ibanez, Vickery, Edwards etc.) were strong, big personalities and could accomodate Cipriani and handle him; you did the business at training, in the weight room and you showed up to play and win. He was treated as an adult. But others outside that enclave thought Cipriani was poison and that is grounds for not having him on your team; that truly ruins "team culture". Cipriani is NOT the player you bring into a new team to follow the rules. He comes into a team with established, hardened leadership.

It the bullshit and trumped up whispers to the press by McQueen and his charges that Cipriani is out on the piss that does a disservice to all, but particularly McQueen. Frankly, it's simply not true. He is probably shagging half of the hotties at night-clubs in Melbourne for sure, and if McQueen wants to set the Rebels up to be chaste boy-scouts then so be it, but McQueen hasn't brought the leadership or management to bear here, and he will not bring Cipriani to heel. They are better off without each other. Cipriani was always a tosser, never a boozer. McQueen has just revealed himself to have a little less integrity that previously thought.

 

[Riptide]

So he didn't steal that bottle of grog? He didn't ignore team directive on going out, twice? He is not, therefore, a disciplinary problem? Good to know this is all made up by Macqueen as a coaching tool to motivate.

He grabbed a bottle across the bar.. hi-jinks.. It's been blown up way out of proportion and McQueen went public with it. It's all bollox.

The only poor job I can see is the hiring of this non-team following, serial offending, self-important prat in the first place.

We agree. It was idiotic as I pointed out in my above post. A very stupid move.

Yes, because dissing your team-mates, coaching staff and senior management is an excellent way to have 14 year old boys idolise your coolness, but not so good if you want to have, well, you know, a career.

Your honour, I call to the stand as a character witness that well known merry jokester and infinitely tolerable person of transgressions against protocol, Mr. Martin Johnson.

Cipriani is a tosser, a kid with great skills but McQueen should not be afforded any respect for how he has fostered a campaign in the media to discredit Cipriani. Frankly, McQueen should be running a day-care center, not a professional sports franchise for adult men. McQueen should have manned up, admitted his mistakes and had the balls to remove Cipriani for reasons other than two indiscretions.

Riptide, all due respect, but there is an NRL membership winging its way to your door.[/QUOTE]

 

[Newb]

Oh Puleeeez.. Even a modicum of research, a few calls into a player network, would have revealed that Cips is an arrogant little tosser. I was once told by a former team-mate of his, an English World Cup wining medal holder who is a really good guy and current coach of a Premiership team, that he thought Cipriani was a complete and absolute prick, a total tosser, and that Johnson would never put up with his shit. However, he also acknowledged that Wasps loved him. "They" (senior Wasps leadership.. Dallaglio, Ibanez, Vickery, Edwards etc.) were strong, big personalities and could accomodate Cipriani and handle him; you did the business at training, in the weight room and you showed up to play and win. He was treated as an adult. But others outside that enclave thought Cipriani was poison and that is grounds for not having him on your team; that truly ruins "team culture". Cipriani is NOT the player you bring into a new team to follow the rules. He comes into a team with established, hardened leadership.

It the bullshit and trumped up whispers to the press by McQueen and his charges that Cipriani is out on the piss that does a disservice to all, but particularly McQueen. Frankly, it's simply not true. He is probably shagging half of the hotties at night-clubs in Melbourne for sure, and if McQueen wants to set the Rebels up to be chaste boy-scouts then so be it, but McQueen hasn't brought the leadership or management to bear here, and he will not bring Cipriani to heel. They are better off without each other. Cipriani was always a tosser, never a boozer. McQueen has just revealed himself to have a little less integrity that previously thought.

are you writing your responses while arguing with yourself in a mirror? sounds like you're mad at mcqueen for treating cips like exactly what he is.

 

[Riptide]

are you writing your responses while arguing with yourself in a mirror? sounds like you're mad at mcqueen for treating cips like exactly what he is.

I'm wondering how you think leading a whisper, wink & nod campaign suggesting to the media that a player is out of control, has no self-discipline and is booing it up is "treating cips exactly what he is". He is not any of the above. A tosser he may be, but Cips isn't any of the above. Cipriani should never have been signed but once he was, trying to enroll him in the boy scouts wasnt the best way to go, and then bs'ing to the press didnt help either.

 

[Scarfman]

Ciptide, what about the players' group who gave him the arse? Who is at fault? Martin Johnson, McQueen, Mortlock, etc etc?

 

[Torn Hammy]

Do the Rebels do any in house drug tests?

 

[Newb]

I'm wondering how you think leading a whisper, wink & nod campaign suggesting to the media that a player is out of control, has no self-discipline and is booing it up is "treating cips exactly what he is". He is not any of the above. A tosser he may be, but Cips isn't any of the above. Cipriani should never have been signed but once he was, trying to enroll him in the boy scouts wasnt the best way to go, and then bs'ing to the press didnt help either.

i think you're trying to say that he was going to be a bad fit with the mission of the rebels from the start, which i agree with, based on how the season is unfolding for him.

but i don't get the other stuff. are you saying he's an in-control arrogant tosser that doesn't respect his coaches or teammates? and whether mcqueen is seeding these media reports or not, this is the kind of stuff that will get out in the air these days. he's got the papp following him around on their own without mcqueens help.

it's like you're defending him while saying he should get the boot.

 

[Riptide]

i think you're trying to say that he was going to be a bad fit with the mission of the rebels from the start, which i agree with, based on how the season is unfolding for him.

but i don't get the other stuff. are you saying he's an in-control arrogant tosser that doesn't respect his coaches or teammates? and whether mcqueen is seeding these media reports or not, this is the kind of stuff that will get out in the air these days. he's got the papp following him around on their own without mcqueens help.

it's like you're defending him while saying he should get the boot.

Cipriani is a great talent, and if harnessed properly in am already strong environment which gives players their head and treats them as adults, he might thrive (as he once did at Wasps). BUT 1) he should never have been recruited to play for the Rebels 2) Once he was recruited, he should never have been handled the way he was ("no beer or chocolate this week lads, tuck yourself in before 10.30pm and say your prayers" and 3) THIS IS MY MAIN POINT McQueen should have acted with some integrity, fronted up and been honest about Cipriani and not insinuate through his buddies in the media that Cips was being benched because he was boozing it up and repeatedly flaunting team rules. That was really small fry shit. Cipriani is not a boozer; he actually trains hard and is physically well prepared. The player group at the Rebels is being led by the nose to the conclusions McQueen wants although it's not that difficult as many players dont really "like" Cips anyway; he comes across as an arrogant, aloof arsehole.

 

[Slim 293]

Yes, it's Macqueen's fault for Cipriani being a colossal fuckup...

You're kidding yourself if you believe that Cipriani should be exluded from team protocols because he's a precious little talent, and all of his troubles are just a Macqueen led conspiracy...

 

[daz]

Cipriani is a great talent, and if harnessed properly in am already strong environment which gives players their head and treats them as adults, he might thrive (as he once did at Wasps). BUT 1) he should never have been recruited to play for the Rebels 2) Once he was recruited, he should never have been handled the way he was ("no beer or chocolate this week lads, tuck yourself in before 10.30pm and say your prayers"

Well then, if Cips doesn't like discipline, coaching rules or a sense of team, I guess that he should quit and find a place where individuality reigns supreme with no accountability.

Sounds like he would do better at the Brumbies.

 

[chasmac]

The biggest curiosity for me in this whole saga is that Cipriani was the first player signed to the rebels. Does this mean that Macqueen hadn't decided on a no dickheads policy at this point. Or did he think he could reform the party boy. Either way it is a shame that the potential for both the club and the player will not be realised. I am a major fan of Macqueen and I have been very impressed with Cipriani on the field. I am more dissapointed for the club though than I am for the player. If they had recruited a similar calibre 5/8 that they could have based a 5 year plan around then the rebels would be looking good. For the record I far prefer Beale as a fullback, I hope that he doesn't try and fill the rebel No 10 jersey in the future. One more world class backline signing though and Australian rugby public will all be saying "Danny who" in 12 months time.

 

[chasmac]

Sounds like he would do better at the Brumbies.[/QUOTE]

He might be able to use his fame to jag a female PM at our nations capital. That should at least relegate Gits to No 12 on the weekends.