Cheerio Deans

[USARugger]

Surely that's par for the course as a coach.

Coaches can axe players, blazers can axe coaches – and frequently do it.

He should have been counting his blessings that the axe was all he got after that Lions series.

Excited to grab a copy of this book and give it a thorough read, always wanted a gateway into the mind of one Robbie Deans.

 

[TahDan]

Again, you're just not dealing at all with the fact that the media and McKenzie helped feed the notion that it was Robbie's Kiwi origins that were holding us back from beating the All Blacks and playing better rugby.

Where did Link actually say that he knew how to beat NZ teams. There was a lot of media hype over it but was it his own doing or were they jumping on his Super Rugby results?

Part of it was media, but it was fed by McKenzie dog whistling that tune to them with comments about how he "knows" Kiwi teams. There was also some fairly good mail that some of the leaks against Deans were Link's work.

People talked up Robbie Deans as the master appointment, yet never compared him at all to his predecessor. People got all carried away with Deans winning his first game against the All Blacks. We also lost the next 3. In 2007 we were 1-1 with them so a home win wasn't some massive upset. Both teams had disappointingly exited the RWC in the QF's so it's not like there was huge disparity in their results.

Of course Deans was talked up - he had been the coach of by a massive margin the most successful Super Rugby team in the competition's history!
So yeah, there was hype. Did he live up to it? No. Was he compared with Connolly? No, but only because Connolly had pretty well the shortest coaching tenure in the modern era and people forgot he was ever there.

He was however compared to Rod McQueen and Alan Jones on numerous occasions, all because those coaches beat them (in spite of Jones being the most over-rated coach on the planet).

As for the World Cups, actually the Wallabies beat the Springboks in a nail biter in 2011 in NZ and made the semis. But they did lose to Ireland, so I suppose it evens out.

All in all though, we have spent most of the last 4 years before Link hearing about how an Aussie coach would be better suited to taking on the All Blacks, and it hasn't worked out that way.

Is that fair? No, of course it isn't. But was it fair to attack Robbie the way he was for being some sort of fucking kiwi mole trying to tear us down from within? No, and in fact it was a heck of a lot worse, and it's part of the reason some people are starting to ask questions on some of the crap used to attack Deans on the basis of Link's record.

 

[Braveheart81]

He should have been counting his blessings that the axe was all he got after that Lions series.

Excited to grab a copy of this book and give it a thorough read, always wanted a gateway into the mind of one Robbie Deans.

A hefty payout came with the axe didn't it?

We probably have the ARU to thank for this book. They provided Deans with the funds and time off to put his feet up and tell his story to old mate McIlraith.

 

[kiap]

So you're responding only to the first 8 words of my post only then? That's kinda missing the point.

So you want a reply point by point?

Add Fiji to that and it's 6/9. but whatever. Deans also won a Tri Nations trophy and holds the longest ever winning streak for an Australian team against the Springboks (5 in a row - including 2 hoodoo breaking wins in South Africa itself).

Deans did well against the Boks with a 64% overall record but even Connolly had a 60% record against them. And as good as that 3N win was, players from opposition lineups were rested in that RWC year.

Connolly wasn't in charge very long, so it's hard to compare really, but we do know is that his side were a massive disappointment in the World Cup and were widely criticized for playing boring 10 man rugby.

A lazy sledge as the All Blacks were a bigger World Cup disappointment, and Connolly's teams did occasionally manage to get the ball past No. 10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1oevxcpiT0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPucHEFUhxo

In any case, my point was that there's a reason people didn't compare Deans to Connolly and they're valid ones. Connolly was in charge for a short period of time and was barely around long enough for people to get used to him, whilst Deans was at the helm for 5 years, and was heavily undercut by the media and even other coaches during that time.

Nah. Deans initially had plenty of Australian support. The biggest slam dunks against Deans came from his "own" side the dutch:

“Robbie doesn't appear to want to be challenged by his assistants and won't allow the kind of full-on debate that Ted [Henry] encourages with Smith and Hansen,” McCaw wrote.​

​

“But when you look at the record of Robbie's assistant coaches, there's quite a lot of turnover and fallout. Robbie's intransigence and reluctance to delegate might have been a factor."​

​

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...-at-robbie-deans/story-fn8ti7yn-1226492399509​

It was only after the 2011 RWC that the tide in Aus really started to turn against him. He should never have been given an extended contract before the World Cup.

One of the coaches who undercut him was McKenzie, a man who openly said he knew how to beat Kiwi teams and leaked against Deans whilst he was in charge.

In fact, it was Link and the other Super coaches who were leaked against, when "someone" conveniently wanted to support Robbie's actions -

AUSTRALIA'S Super Rugby coaches could refuse to express their opinions on Wallabies selections in future after the collated response to Robbie Deans request to nominate their side to play the British and Irish Lions was leaked to the media.​

Read the story here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...deans-leaky-vote/story-e6frg7o6-1226643407289

Now McKenzie is in charge and guess what? The kiwis have belted the living shit out of us in almost every game he's been in charge and we're not doing all that much better against the Springboks (whatever hope we gained in Perth was obliterated in 8 minutes on Saturday).

Against the ABs, McKenzie's record is 0-1-4 in his five tests compared with Deans' record of 0-1-4 in his last five tests.

The Wallabies match in Cape Town was their best performance in two years. Much better than Perth despite the scoreline. Obviously areas that need to be improved but there's plenty to take out of that match. Only the recent Ireland game comes close and that was an easier win against a decent team but hardly on the level of the current Boks when playing in the Republic.

So yes, people are going to compare McKenzie, because McKenzie set the scene perfectly for people to do just that.

And people make tenuous comparisons all the time. Robbie's time in Oz was up, but I see that he's still carrying his baton in hope of getting the ABs job after Hansen departs.

For your sake as an ardent Deans lover, I sincerely hope that he fulfils that dream.

 

[TahDan]

Kiap,

Like Train, you're completely missing the point.

All my responses to this are in response to the notion that McKenzie is some how being treated unfairly because people are comparing him to his predecessor.

For the record, I also state Deans failed to live up to all the hype, but the central issue here is that Deans' was accused of some ludicrous things whilst in charge and one of the central points raised against him is that "a kiwi can't beat the All Blacks".

That point was one of the key drivers for aiming for an Australian coach and McKenzie gladly played on it.

Now, McKenzie's record against the ABs may be no worse than Deans last 5 games, but "no worse" isn't what people were expecting when he came in was it? So he's copping a bit of flak - hardly an unprecedented thing for a coach struggling to make his mark.

As for the cape town game being the best performance in two years... well I can only assume you've wiped To'omua's "tactical kicking" from your brain and stopped watching with 8 minutes to go.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Now, McKenzie's record against the ABs may be no worse than Deans last 5 games, but "no worse" isn't what people were expecting when he came in was it? So he's copping a bit of flak - hardly an unprecedented thing for a coach struggling to make his mark.

Yes his record against NZ is no better, it's equal. But his record against the rest of world rugby is better. Take NZ out of Deans record and there's still 1 or 2 shit losses a year.

So equal + better = an improvement. Not acceptable as a peak, but surely evidence we are moving closer to where we want to be.

 

[Lorenzo]

I have a hard time putting losses against scotland and samoa at the feet of the coach. Australia's best 23 rugby players should be able to beat those teams with no coach.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Was it Australia's best 23 players selected? The Scotland in Newcastle game had constraints so perhaps that in isolation could be forgiven but as for the other 2?

 

[Lorenzo]

Was it Australia's best 23 players selected? The Scotland in Newcastle game had constraints so perhaps that in isolation could be forgiven but as for the other 2?

I'm not going to get into a 50 comment argument with you about because I just don't care, but our better Super teams should be able to take care of business against tier 2 and Scotland. The coach can't control when Giteau misses 75% of the kicks, can he?

 

[Train Without a Station]

No.

But if Scotland is so beatable, surely a team that relies on a single kick in order to win, must be somewhat tactically inept?

Super teams spend a lot more time together than a Wallaby team. International teams need to be able to "mesh" together (fuck I feel like a flog using that term though).

An isolated loss would be an anomaly and not worth discussing. A trend of these losses (draw to Ireland, loss to Scotland, loss to Samoa, loss to Ireland, loss to Scotland) forms a pattern. If players are unable to be motivated to perform in these games when they all have been at some point to show the form that got them selected, when the coach is the differing factor some of the blame comes down to him.

 

[Lorenzo]

No.

Giteau missed 3 straightforward shots at goal at murrayfield. Should Deans have motivated him better?

 

[Lorenzo]

I take that back. My apologies.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Giteau missed 3 straightforward shots at goal at murrayfield. Should Deans have motivated him better?

Possibly. Probably should have motivated the whole team to easily dispatch a much lower ranked opponent though.

 

[TahDan]

I'm not going to get into a 50 comment argument with you about because I just don't care, but our better Super teams should be able to take care of business against tier 2 and Scotland. The coach can't control when Giteau misses 75% of the kicks, can he?

To my mind the comments about the senior players being mostly concerned with their "cab charge" - guys who are on hundreds of thousands a year - after the Lions series kind tells you how much dedication there is toward the Wallabies jumper these days.

 

[Train Without a Station]

To my mind the comments about the senior players being mostly concerned with their "cab charge" - guys who are on hundreds of thousands a year - after the Lions series kind tells you how much dedication there is toward the Wallabies jumper these days.

Either that or it's one single item jumped on with no context.

And let's remember, Deans made many of these guys senior players.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I have a hard time putting losses against scotland and samoa at the feet of the coach. Australia's best 23 rugby players should be able to beat those teams with no coach.

The loss of the Scotland test can be laid SOLELY at the feet of the cpatain - not taking a kick right in front at the end. Sure it was a mongrel night but I think Harris was the kicker and could have hit it with his dick and still converted.
That decision was not one of our formerally beloved national coach, one Mr Deans.

 

[Highlander35]

*cough cough* Munster *cough*

 

[Braveheart81]

Weren't all the penalties we turned down from close range early in the match?

It was late in the match that we were going for penalties that were beyond Harris' range yet he kept taking them rather than giving Barnes a shot.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Excited to grab a copy of this book and give it a thorough read, always wanted a gateway into the mind of one Robbie Deans.

Be sure to take a sack of bread crumbs with you, a person could easily get lost in there................

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I have a hard time putting losses against scotland and samoa at the feet of the coach. Australia's best 23 rugby players should be able to beat those teams with no coach.

They should be - but one of the things that is really Driving most Wallaby supporters to Drink in this era, is that they consistently Don't - and Seemingly Can't... and far too often.

I retain one central belief I cannot prove; The Wallaby Camp has never been the same, since the loss of Eales (and the core of his RWC Team).