CAS Rugby 2025

[WLF3]

Well I mean that isn't incredibly difficult considering each year it's really only the same 3 teams in the CAS who are in premiership contention for each competition grade, so considering 2/3 of the possible winners won the 2nds comp, I wouldn't say that directly reflects barker having any substantial depth in their program. A relative of mine works in barker rugby, and they're very integral to barker sport as one of their staff, and whenever I see them at family events I often hear how barker has just brought in a new kid in year 10, or barker is got their eyes on this one kid, or barker is going out to a junior state carnival to look for talent, I kid you not this is their words on how barker actively outsources talent. Examples of players that have been brought in by barker in recent years, Tj Talaileva and charlie poynton, who both joined barker in year 10 and were immediately placed into the 1st XV.

I was also told by that barker staff at a family event a few years ago, of some of the scores from that previous weekends fixture when barker played shore in 2021, and funnily enough those scores do not reflect that barker can rely on their program alone to win a premiership, as even the 2024 cohort were victorious in the CAS, yet that age groups results in the junior years do not at all reflect that in the future they would be capable of winning a premiership, hence barker in the age groups struggle before importing in year 10, but after external talent is brought in during year 10 barker begins to succeed, indicating that barker does not have a strong enough program build teams from within to eventually win a premiership. The results of the 2024 cohort during the junior age groups in that fixture against shore do not reflect that barker has a strong program and that teams during the age groups possess any future capability that the program alone will bring them premierships when age groups reaches opens level, hence barker relies quite fundamentally on externally sourced talent. These are the scores of the 2024 barker cohort that was victorious in the 1sts and 2nds, when they were u15's. Barker A's lost 40-0, Barker B's lost 69-5, barker C's lost 65-0, this was the cohort that managed to win the CAS 1st XV competition in 2024, yet these results reflect that barker does not have a strong program, and that to win such premierships relying on their program alone will not suffice, so it is not a case of that barker builds their program from below to win premierships, but rather bring in talent at the top, hence I believe barker does not have a strong program.

The only CAS school with a strong program throughout all age groups is Waverly.

Spot on New, a few years ago Knox was strong across most age groups but these days, over the last 10 years, Waverley typically wins 80-85% of all CAS age group games across the CAS season, very lopsided, which isn't healthy.

 

[Mule]

Spot on New, a few years ago Knox was strong across most age groups but these days, over the last 10 years, Waverley typically wins 80-85% of all CAS age group games across the CAS season, very lopsided, which isn't healthy.

Lots of blaming demographic change on demise at Knox ….. hopefully new DOR brings more ideas to address!

 

[Homer]

Lots of blaming demographic change on demise at Knox ….. hopefully new DOR brings more ideas to address!

Who is the new DOR?
Needed to happen years ago.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Hearing that next season will see the introduction of a combined ISA / CAS competition. I believe some schools have already been advised of this.

CAS and ISA will run their own competitions at the commencement of the season. At the end of those competitions, based on a club champs style points system, the top 3 CAS & top 3 ISA teams go into a combined Div 1 competition. Remainder of the teams go into a combined Div 2 competition.

The cross association games then occur over a 3 week period.

It may need to be a 4 week period for Div 2 as there are 7 ISA Schools.

Regardless, I think it's a fantastic idea and would give hope to Aloys, Gregs, etc that they will get some games where the result isnt already predetermined.

Well done to all for some forward thinking.

BTW, imagine how pissy the 4th ranked CAS team is going to be!!!

 

[DaSchmooze]

Well I mean that isn't incredibly difficult considering each year it's really only the same 3 teams in the CAS who are in premiership contention for each competition grade, so considering 2/3 of the possible winners won the 2nds comp, I wouldn't say that directly reflects barker having any substantial depth in their program. A relative of mine works in barker rugby, and they're very integral to barker sport as one of their staff, and whenever I see them at family events I often hear how barker has just brought in a new kid in year 10, or barker is got their eyes on this one kid, or barker is going out to a junior state carnival to look for talent, I kid you not this is their words on how barker actively outsources talent. Examples of players that have been brought in by barker in recent years, Tj Talaileva and charlie poynton, who both joined barker in year 10 and were immediately placed into the 1st XV.

I was also told by that barker staff at a family event a few years ago, of some of the scores from that previous weekends fixture when barker played shore in 2021, and funnily enough those scores do not reflect that barker can rely on their program alone to win a premiership, as even the 2024 cohort were victorious in the CAS, yet that age groups results in the junior years do not at all reflect that in the future they would be capable of winning a premiership, hence barker in the age groups struggle before importing in year 10, but after external talent is brought in during year 10 barker begins to succeed, indicating that barker does not have a strong enough program build teams from within to eventually win a premiership. The results of the 2024 cohort during the junior age groups in that fixture against shore do not reflect that barker has a strong program and that teams during the age groups possess any future capability that the program alone will bring them premierships when age groups reaches opens level, hence barker relies quite fundamentally on externally sourced talent. These are the scores of the 2024 barker cohort that was victorious in the 1sts and 2nds, when they were u15's. Barker A's lost 40-0, Barker B's lost 69-5, barker C's lost 65-0, this was the cohort that managed to win the CAS 1st XV competition in 2024, yet these results reflect that barker does not have a strong program, and that to win such premierships relying on their program alone will not suffice, so it is not a case of that barker builds their program from below to win premierships, but rather bring in talent at the top, hence I believe barker does not have a strong program.

The only CAS school with a strong program throughout all age groups is Waverley.

You can easily see a situation where Barker ends up the 4th ranked program. I wonder if their current recruitment policies outlined above would now give them pause for thought.

 

[OleMan]

Well done to all for some forward thinking.

Absolutely, It must have been a massive effort to not only get all Heads of Sport on board but can you imagine how hard it would have been to get all the school principals to agree.
Massive kudos to those who got this off the ground. Lets hope next years 'trial run' is a huge success for all schools involved and they agree to continue with the format.

 

[Mule]

Absolutely, It must have been a massive effort to not only get all Heads of Sport on board but can you imagine how hard it would have been to get all the school principals to agree.
Massive kudos to those who got this off the ground. Lets hope next years 'trial run' is a huge success for all schools involved and they agree to continue with the format.

Really hoping this HAS all been officially agreed by all schools/associations; has it?

 

[DaSchmooze]

Absolutely, It must have been a massive effort to not only get all Heads of Sport on board but can you imagine how hard it would have been to get all the school principals to agree.
Massive kudos to those who got this off the ground. Lets hope next years 'trial run' is a huge success for all schools involved and they agree to continue with the format.

Yeah I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for the multitude of meetings it must have taken.

I do wonder about the law of unintended consequences though. Everyone's in agreeance until Knox or Barker have a rough year in the lower grades and then all bets will be off.

That could be a cynical take on it - I hope it doesnt end like that.

I suspect it will be a two horse race between Oakhill and Waverly. If strength-of-program is the metric of success then I dont see it going any other way.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Really hoping this HAS all been officially agreed by all schools/associations; has it?

If schools are sending out info to their parents about this then one would assume so.

 

[OleMan]

Really hoping this HAS all been officially agreed by all schools/associations; has it?

I believe it has. I was talking with one of the Heads of Sport who was part of a small group behind the changes. He said they've now got agreement from all Heads of Sport and all school Principals.

 

[OleMan]

I do wonder about the law of unintended consequences though. Everyone's in agreeance until Knox or Barker have a rough year in the lower grades and then all bets will be off.

That could be a cynical take on it - I hope it doesnt end like that.

I suspect it will be a two horse race between Oakhill and Waverly. If strength-of-program is the metric of success then I dont see it going any other way.

I hear ya..I wonder the same.
What happens if Stannies and Kinross end up in the same division at the end of the ISA season. Does that mean the likes of Trinity, Aloys or Cranbrook will travel to Bathurst & Orange at the back end of the year? How long until parents and teachers get sick of that?

I suspect Oakhill may have a few 'lean years' in front of them. The First XV may do well next year, but the lower age groups are not that strong. Although you could probably exclude this years u13's, but it's anyone's guess what they look like in a few years.
Knox seem to be on the up and up, especially in the lower age groups and I expect them to be strong over the next few years.

 

[Bob_Jones]

Yeah I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for the multitude of meetings it must have taken.

I do wonder about the law of unintended consequences though. Everyone's in agreeance until Knox or Barker have a rough year in the lower grades and then all bets will be off.

That could be a cynical take on it - I hope it doesnt end like that.

I suspect it will be a two horse race between Oakhill and Waverly. If strength-of-program is the metric of success then I dont see it going any other way

It will be interesting to see how the club championship point scoring system is weighted as this will have a big influence on who gets 2nd and 3rd in the CAS comp. If it is evenly weighted by age group (which I doubt it will be), then I wonder if 2nd and 3rd are less clear cut than Barker and Knox.

My understanding is that Barker focus their scholarships with a 2 year gap. This is done to prevent problems when the scholarship holders get to Opens as they don't want yr 11 and yr 12 scholarship holders both fighting for the same spot and one of them being disgruntled when they miss out. eg. Barker 2024 U15 is very high standard with many Glen Blue and NSW players, 2024 U14 is more 'normal'.

 

[Bob_Jones]

I hear ya..I wonder the same.
What happens if Stannies and Kinross end up in the same division at the end of the ISA season. Does that mean the likes of Trinity, Aloys or Cranbrook will travel to Bathurst & Orange at the back end of the year? How long until parents and teachers get sick of that?

I suspect Oakhill may have a few 'lean years' in front of them. The First XV may do well next year, but the lower age groups are not that strong. Although you could probably exclude this years u13's, but it's anyone's guess what they look like in a few years.
Knox seem to be on the up and up, especially in the lower age groups and I expect them to be strong over the next few years.

Re travel to Bathurst and Orange, the answer would be yes. I presume they will do what some of the schools who play those teams currently do and play, for example, Stannies and home and Kinross away. They then alternate this each year.

 

[RugbyBot]

Knox seem to be on the up and up, especially in the lower age groups and I expect them to be strong over the next few years.

Sadly not accurate for Knox lower years. The 13s and 14s struggled badly for numbers and poor results followed. Great spirit in the teams but a worry for future years. This year’s opens and 16s will be strong though.

As someone else said maybe the new DOR can revitalise the program.

 

[DaSchmooze]

It will be interesting to see how the club championship point scoring system is weighted as this will have a big influence on who gets 2nd and 3rd in the CAS comp. If it is evenly weighted by age group (which I doubt it will be), then I wonder if 2nd and 3rd are less clear cut than Barker and Knox.

Yes agreed and good point. If every team has an equal weight then I wonder how they will account for programs of different sizes. Do you take it down to Cs in each age group?

ISA do a kind of "Club Champs" table (calculated via A and B teams in each year group) which Auggies won this year. Based upon this years Club Champs, the top 3 are Auggies, Oakhill and Stannies. The next best were Pats, then Kinross, Gregs and Pius

Anyway - exciting times ahead and I think this is a fantastic idea.

 

[WLF3]

Yes agreed and good point. If every team has an equal weight then I wonder how they will account for programs of different sizes. Do you take it down to Cs in each age group?

ISA do a kind of "Club Champs" table (calculated via A and B teams in each year group) which Auggies won this year. Based upon this years Club Champs, the top 3 are Auggies, Oakhill and Stannies. The next best were Pats, then Kinross, Gregs and Pius

Anyway - exciting times ahead and I think this is a fantastic idea.

DAS, You would think that the first few years will have teething problems, to be expected, until a pattern emerges whereby those schools who are serious about developing a strong overall program emerge. Those that aren't serious isn't a problem that's their choice, but from a grass roots perspective that would be disappointing. That's life today!

Perfect timing for the Wallabies to come good. which I believe is happening.

 

[DaSchmooze]

DAS, You would think that the first few years will have teething problems, to be expected, until a pattern emerges whereby those schools who are serious about developing a strong overall program emerge. Those that aren't serious isn't a problem that's their choice, but from a grass roots perspective that would be disappointing. That's life today!

Perfect timing for the Wallabies to come good. which I believe is happening.

Yes and I wonder how much importance schools will place on it too? Obviously, your school's 1st xv winning their association title will always remain important, but winning a "Best Program / Club" competition speaks to how much coaching work is being done across all years and grades.

Looking forward to it!

 

[Bob_Jones]

Yeah I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for the multitude of meetings it must have taken.

I do wonder about the law of unintended consequences though. Everyone's in agreeance until Knox or Barker have a rough year in the lower grades and then all bets will be off.

That could be a cynical take on it - I hope it doesnt end like that.

I suspect it will be a two horse race between Oakhill and Waverly. If strength-of-program is the metric of success then I dont see it going any other way.

I would definetly put

Yes agreed and good point. If every team has an equal weight then I wonder how they will account for programs of different sizes. Do you take it down to Cs in each age group?

ISA do a kind of "Club Champs" table (calculated via A and B teams in each year group) which Auggies won this year. Based upon this years Club Champs, the top 3 are Auggies, Oakhill and Stannies. The next best were Pats, then Kinross, Gregs and Pius

Anyway - exciting times ahead and I think this is a fantastic idea.

We have been told that the only teams contributing to the club championships are 1st, 2nd and age group A teams. My understanding is that it is only these teams who will play in the cross association competition. Teams not in the cross association comp (eg. B's, C's, etc) will play friendlies during that 3-4 week cross association comp period.

 

[DaSchmooze]

I would definetly put

We have been told that the only teams contributing to the club championships are 1st, 2nd and age group A teams. My understanding is that it is only these teams who will play in the cross association competition. Teams not in the cross association comp (eg. B's, C's, etc) will play friendlies during that 3-4 week cross association comp period.

And I would assume that in many cases, the friendlies will still be against the school you are playing for points for that week. Should make it relatively easy for scheduling

 

[OleMan]

Sadly not accurate for Knox lower years. The 13s and 14s struggled badly for numbers and poor results followed. Great spirit in the teams but a worry for future years. This year’s opens and 16s will be strong though.

As someone else said maybe the new DOR can revitalise the program.

I thought this years 15s did much better than they have over the past few years.