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CAS Rugby 2023

baked beans

Stan Wickham (3)
I think Tom Girle deserves a spot in this team, he has been unbelievable for Cranbrook throughout this pre-season. I've noticed his running game has significantly improved from last year and his tackling has become far more dominant. Would be a tough decision to leave such a good player out of the team.
well you could argue that Nathaniel Thomas (Barker) has been robbed not being in the CAS 1st team seeing as he is one of barkers go to forwards. there is so many good no.6 however cranbrook havent really played any strong competion this year so hard to tell how there players are actually tracking.
 

pocockenthusiast1973

Allen Oxlade (6)
well you could argue that Nathaniel Thomas (Barker) has been robbed not being in the CAS 1st team seeing as he is one of barkers go to forwards. there is so many good no.6 however cranbrook havent really played any strong competion this year so hard to tell how there players are actually tracking.

Cheers for your insight on this discussion baked beans.
 

frount lowers

Frank Row (1)
I've heard whispers that Samuel Fingleton (3) is returning to Waverley for the Cranbrook match. May be Huge for Waverley as he has had much experience in 1,2 XV and it could be a big test for Cranbrook Scrum to contain him. Could see him coming off the bench for 1s and 2s to ease him back into playing.
 

RUCKS R US

Frank Nicholson (4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5shiY0bjYc&ab_channel=StStanislaus%27CollegeBathurst
Watching the Barker vs Stannies game noticed in the first 5 minutes very undisciplined giving away 2 stupid penalties leading to a Stannies try. Also at 15:40 in the video clear lack of cohesion within the team with a skill issue within 10 metres of the try line. I really think they need to tighten up their game heading into the first round of CAS.
Thoughts? Ruchko out.
 

Snort

Nev Cottrell (35)
This is true. It’s honestly a massive predicament that CAS Rugby has found themselves in. Alloys aren’t competitive in rugby and won’t be until they’re able to provide scholarships to players. The GPS had this problem with Shore being uncompetitive but their structure changed and now they are very competitive. It would suit having a 10 round CAS competition, but you can’t just get rid of team for the values their school uphold. Maybe there does need to be a change in the structure of schoolboy footy, and a structure of a competition with tiers of the teams from the GPS, CAS and ISA could make footy more competitive. However, I don’t see this as a viable solution, as it ruins the culture and profound history of the 3 competitions
I fear that your knowledge of history is pretty shallow. What "culture and profound history" do you mean? is it the proud tradition of Sydney Grammar and Sydney High playing in the GPS 3rd XV competition?

Here's how the history of GPS, CAS and ISA works: exclusion. A bunch of schools asked if they could join the GPS. They were told "no", so they formed the CAS. Then a bunch of schools asked if they could join the CAS. They were told "no" and so they formed the ISA. That's the "culture" - you're not one of us, go away. It's not something worth defending. What holds back the idea of a sensible, tiered Sydney schools Rugby competition is that the GPS schools persist in believing that they have something special that needs to be preserved to the exclusion of other schools.

But the traditional systems are no longer fit for purpose.

GPS wasn't designed so that 25% of its schools couldn't field teams in the 1st XV competition. CAS wasn't designed so that St Aloysius could leak 97 points to Barker. But that's the reality we need to face, not some weirdly romanticised idea about the way things were in 1896.

The reality is that a 10-round CAS competition is unsustainable because, when it did exist, the schools with less depth in any given year were usually so badly impacted by injuries that the games at the end of the season were horrible mismatches, which produced both unedifying football and an unacceptable risk of injury. Usually the schools impacted were Cranbrook, Trinity and St Aloysius, but not always - one year, let's not forget, Trinity beat an injury-depleted Knox 1st XV 73-10.

A tiered structure is the only sensible solution.
 

Eyes and Ears

Bob Davidson (42)
It is so frustrating that there isn't more desire to fix this issue. I am sure that there could be a way to have a Tier 1 combined competition and still have a GPS and CAS champion declared through that competition. Frankly Australian rugby would be better off for it but "tradition" or "self-interest" rule the way. Schools rugby is not the only competition where we need transformation to help fix a struggling game.
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
Here's how the history of GPS, CAS and ISA works: exclusion. A bunch of schools asked if they could join the GPS. They were told "no", so they formed the CAS. Then a bunch of schools asked if they could join the CAS. They were told "no" and so they formed the ISA. That's the "culture" - you're not one of us, go away. It's not something worth defending. What holds back the idea of a sensible, tiered Sydney schools Rugby competition is that the GPS schools persist in believing that they have something special that needs to be preserved to the exclusion of other schools.

I don't know if even you know just how right you are Snort.

As someone who attended a GPS school, I was SHOCKED when I left and found out just how rubbish some of the GPS schools are as schools, and how amazing some of the CAS and ISA schools are, especially for a more affordable private eduction. It is my opinion that the two best schools in NSW right now both currently reside in the CAS comp. Despite this, the culture of elitism in the GPS is still incredibly strong, something I have experienced first hand.

A lot of GPS folk will NEVER agree with what you're suggesting, and sadly it comes down to being conditioned from youth that the GPS is so far incredibly superior, and they wouldn't want to mix with inferior schools. However, this superiority does not exist.
 

Jumping_jack

Ward Prentice (10)
Watching the Barker vs Stannies game noticed in the first 5 minutes very undisciplined giving away 2 stupid penalties leading to a Stannies try. Also at 15:40 in the video clear lack of cohesion within the team with a skill issue within 10 metres of the try line. I really think they need to tighten up their game heading into the first round of CAS.
Thoughts? Ruchko out.
I’m not sure they will be too worried with Aloys as first opponents.
 

JohnnyOhns

Peter Burge (5)
Only beating Stannies by 20 points is a bit too be "worried" about. Also I wouldn't write Aloys off, you never know when a 2019 Aloys Vs Waverly upset could happen again. Does anyone know if they had players out for the stannies game?
It's interesting how Barker and Cranbrook went up to stannies and only won by small margins (was expecting a much larger win for barker). I heard a lot from my son about the refereeing in the Cranbrook 1st XV game but I don't think you can blame a tight game on bad refereeing. Interesting too hear out of the barker camp if they had similar issues with the dodgy refereeing.
 

workingdasnipe

Peter Burge (5)
Only beating Stannies by 20 points is a bit too be "worried" about. Also I wouldn't write Aloys off, you never know when a 2019 Aloys Vs Waverly upset could happen again. Does anyone know if they had players out for the stannies game?
Aloys will not win . No chance on gods green earth!
 

Halfbackenthusiast

Ted Fahey (11)
Watching the Barker vs Stannies game noticed in the first 5 minutes very undisciplined giving away 2 stupid penalties leading to a Stannies try. Also at 15:40 in the video clear lack of cohesion within the team with a skill issue within 10 metres of the try line. I really think they need to tighten up their game heading into the first round of CAS.
Thoughts? Ruchko out.
I had similar thoughts with backline set piece. There was a lot of stray passes, I was willing to put it down to a new centre pairing and a young backline but there was a reliance on individual brilliance. Those opportunities will be few and far between against sides of knox and waves quality
 

Halfbackenthusiast

Ted Fahey (11)
It's interesting how Barker and Cranbrook went up to stannies and only won by small margins (was expecting a much larger win for barker). I heard a lot from my son about the refereeing in the Cranbrook 1st XV game but I don't think you can blame a tight game on bad refereeing. Interesting too hear out of the barker camp if they had similar issues with the dodgy refereeing.
Having a conversation with a stannies dad on the weekend. The team that played against barker and brook was vastly improved and better then the team agaknst Scott’s. They had some good players, there 15 and 3 in particular but yes you’re right the results should’ve been a lot better
 

Erastos Luccassen

Frank Row (1)
It's interesting how Barker and Cranbrook went up to stannies and only won by small margins (was expecting a much larger win for barker). I heard a lot from my son about the refereeing in the Cranbrook 1st XV game but I don't think you can blame a tight game on bad refereeing. Interesting too hear out of the barker camp if they had similar issues with the dodgy refereeing.
Just watched the Barker v Stannies from Stannies youtube and the young lads commentating on it mention that the referee is the dad of Stannies number 5 in the 1st XV so definitely can't guarantee a lack of bias. It has been mentioned before about the country refs when playing at Kinross and Stannies
 

JohnnyOhns

Peter Burge (5)
Just watched the Barker v Stannies from Stannies youtube and the young lads commentating on it mention that the referee is the dad of Stannies number 5 in the 1st XV so definitely can't guarantee a lack of bias. It has been mentioned before about the country refs when playing at Kinross and Stannies
Yes there is a lot of bias which is understandable due to the lack of availability for refs in the area and all of them being hired through the school not rugby NSW. When Cranbrook was up there many of the 1sts and 2nd XV coaches reffed some of the lower age group games earlier in the day due to the lack of availability.
 

Goosestep

Jim Clark (26)
..
Cough Cough ... Joeys
Joeys ranked 150th in the HSC in 2021 and barely broke 100th last year.

Shame they put all their time and money into a good rugby program instead of focusing on the schools performance. However with some shocking results across the board for Joeys this season maybe suggests things are about to take a turn for the schools academics.

One would hope so after such atrocious rankings.

Gotta love them for their footy though (apart from this year)
mate you might fool some here , but you’re just a troll ..

don’t insult the kids on the forum .

Secondly, it doesn’t take big brains to realise why Australia’s largest boarding school (joeys) didnt do well during 2021 … and its a credit to them how they bounced back 50 spots in one year.
 

RedOrDead

Charlie Fox (21)
It’s not scholarships it’s the culture of the school. All these schools have the ability and means to be strong at rugby, it’s whether they choose to or not which is the difference. Look at Oakhill now smashing some CAS schools .. why ? they’ve developed a strong rugby culture.. (I see Gregs - more league traditionally- following this model)
.. look at shore a few years ago some of you would have salivated at throwing them into the abyss of a bastardised second tier comp, and now they extremely competitive with the big boys of the GPS. Again, this is due to heavily encouraged rugby culture and program .

If your school goes down to the 8ths in soccer but can’t fill a 3rds in rugby…. don’t Blame your association, look inward to solve the problem.\

Your first point is simply not true. Every school is different, with different sizes, different geographic location, different cost and different deomographic... All of which DRASTICALLY affects a schools rugby ability. Let's move with the times. Realise that schools have different goals and abilities and adapt... Because old thinking is contributing to the suffering of rugby cultures in some schools and that's blatantly obvious.

The beauty of the tier system that we have discussed is that it is fluid. Shore would have been a tier 2 team (and still probably are), but with improvement could be moved into the top tier. Plus its MUCH easier to build rugby culture when you get to play teams of your standard... It's all well and good too say Aloys should improve their program... But if I'm an Aloys boy why would I want to play rugby where I concede 50 points to Barker, Knox and Waverley, and get physically manhandled by much more athletic boys week in a and week out... That argument majorly lacks nuance.
 

pocockenthusiast1973

Allen Oxlade (6)
mate you might fool some here , but you’re just a troll ..

don’t insult the kids on the forum .

Secondly, it doesn’t take big brains to realise why Australia’s largest boarding school (joeys) didnt do well during 2021 … and its a credit to them how they bounced back 50 spots in one year.

Mate, I am not a troll.

For a $55k school (including boarding fees) you’d expect them to perform better academically.

Also, my “insult” is a fair dig at their performance on the field this year in comparison to other years. The team consists of some very talented players however, due to the intense competition this season in the GPS they have been experiencing some tough losses.

If you look at the HSC rankings for over the past 10 years you’d discover that the rankings are consistently poor for a school of such a high price. Have a look for yourself, you may learn that in comparison to other major NSW private schools, the academics are generally bad.

I have spoken to many parents who have had to pull their children out from the school due to bad academic performance and also a “hierarchal” like culture.

Before you assume of people as trolls, please do some research. You sound like a Joeys old boy, desperately trying to protect your school.


No hard feelings
Pocockenthusiast1973 Out!
 
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