Halfbackenthusiast
Ted Fahey (11)
Yes this is the major reason cranbrook have opted to become co Ed, aloys and trinity should follow suit
CAS Rugby 2023
- Thread starter rod skellet
- Start date
handswilldoit
Bob McCowan (2)
Funny you should say this... hearing murmurings of Aloysius considering going co-ed as the final stage of their 'plan magis' in 2030... they could dominate the 2030s, a couple of the girls would probably get a game.
JackJill
Ted Fahey (11)
This theory about girls attracting better rugby players is stupid IMO. If a player is seriously committed to the sport he'll go to a good rugby programmed school regardless of single sex or co education. It starts with the rugby culture that the school creates that attracts and makes good players, for example Joeys, Riverview, Knox and even Oakhill. And scholarships isn't the pathway to take when trying to make a rugby culture within the school, having a good 1st XV team every year when the foundation of that team are boys brought in in senior years just pisses off the boys who have committed to the rugby program since day dot. If Aloys and Trinity want improve their program, they must invest time and training throughout all age groups, not just 1st XV and A teams, to nurture players all the way through, that'll create a strong and deep rugby program which will ultimately attract more boys at a young age to go to the school.
That's just how i'd approach it based on my perspective, feel free to critique.
RedOrDead
Charlie Fox (21)
No one is seriously suggesting that girls at a school will attract more rugby talent... it's clearly people taking the piss...
If you're not a first quality player you don't deserve to play 1stXV. And when you have 150 boys in a year group and are trying to compete with schools with 200 more boys in each year group, and already established rugby cultures, you have to go about things a different way. Pretty simple to understand.
Waleed Aly
Banned
Having girls at the school would probably help,
I disagree with a lot of that. Having a good rugby programme through out the grades will only get you so far, just look at Shore they have plenty of depth but their first xv are hardly ever producing.
Now look at Barker, they get destroyed in every grade leading up the first xv but then suddenly end up becoming one of the best teams in the country.
Getting the good players on scholarships makes a huge difference, and having things which will entice the players is another thing.
As mentioned in this thread one player left because he wanted to go to a co-ed school.
Halfbackenthusiast
Ted Fahey (11)
Getting destroyed in every grade other then 1st XV is a massive over exaggeration. They very a lot from age group compared to waves who are normally strong throughout the age group but they still win a lot more then they lose
Waleed Aly
Banned
They lost to Oakhill in every grade but firsts last year.
Halfbackenthusiast
Ted Fahey (11)
They played Oakhill twice, in the second fixture yes but oakhill are always incredibly strong in the juniors. A lot of Oakhill A sides remained undefeated against Scots and joeys.
JackJill
Ted Fahey (11)
Scroll up and numerous people were talking about the advantages of co-ed schools like Barker and how they attract boys.
So the solution to having a poor rugby program is luring boys from established schools, especially ISA, to Barker to make their 1st team good? Like it isn't even offering kids much of a better education anymore it's purely about winning. Lachlan Hooper, Doug Phillipson, Charlie Poynton, Matt Hanley, Sam Sahyoun just last year to name a few, were all gun players at good rugby schools. There's a certain point between giving boys a better education, i.e Isaiya Katoa and Oniti Finau, and bringing these pre-established stars in just to make a superteam while the rest of the rugby program struggles.
And to answer your statement, a school needs to create 1st quality players, regardless if they deserve it or not. The way Barker are doing it just isn't healthy for the rugby program at the school.
This isn't just Barker anyway, New, Scots have similar problems, to create culture at a school they must invest time to create good players, not buy them in, a strategy View, Joeys and Knox excel in, and other schools should follow.
JackJill
Ted Fahey (11)
Shore have a lot of players yes, but they lack good players in depth that can replace a 1st XV player with little to no difference, which ultimately comes down to coaching. A reason why Joeys always are good is because they put the same amount of work into their B/C teams as much as their A teams, which is why their 2nds and 3rds teams beat a lot of 1st CAS and ISA teams. Barker is a different story considering the player backgrounds to which they get their players from, typically ISA teams which have nurtured and put work into a player throughout their schooling life, just to be taken by Barker, who has a lot more money, after they made a Gen Blue team. Yes Barker will be good but relying on imports doesn't seem right to me.
RedOrDead
Charlie Fox (21)
Believe it or not... Barker don't abduct these kids from these schools against their will... If the boys and parents didn't think Barker was a better school... then they wouldn't send them to Barker... Stupid argument.
Schools don't create talent. They receive it. And they then nurture the talent they have. Saying otherwise is utterly stupid. Joeys is great because they are a revered rugby school and hence they organically receive an abundant amount of rugby talent , which they admittedly nurture extremely well, but they haven't discovered some special formula that creates wallabies. They receive wallaby level talent and they make wallabies out of that talent.
Barker do an exceptional job with the talent they receive organically, to name a few, Tom Livingstone (robbed of an Aus Schoolboys selection IMO, and was laughably robbed from a CAS 1's spot by that Ethan. King bloke, despite outperforming him all year long), Bryn Edwards (Aus Schools), Adam Van Wyk (NSW), Gabriel Reid (who was a soccer player, who in 1 and a half years became a CAS rugby representative), Jakob Biet (NSW representative) and Hamish McDonald (NSW representative)... That was from last year alone... Barker has an outstanding opens program, admittedly they do need to start focusing on developing players earlier, but Barker is creating great players with the talent they have, they just don't receive the same talent as other schools do organically due to a smaller cohort of boys, and not having a long standing culture of rugby prestige.
Almost like Joeys, View and Knox aren't competing against a co-ed environment... and have 200 more boys in every year group to pick from... and already have 100 years of established rugby prestige success leading to a strong culture to piggy back on. Not even remotely comparable to Barker's situation. Yet again a blatantly stupid argument.
Barker is an unprecedented situation, in a completely different situation to any school currently, or that any school in NSW has had to undergo before. It will need to do things differently. That is the truth.
You haven't made a single viable point. If you don't like it, that's fine. But take a page out of WLF3's book and at the very least have intelligent and logical criticisms.
JackJill
Ted Fahey (11)
Orrrr, they offer cheaper school fees plus boarding to these kids all for the price of their previous school or cheaper?
School's do create talent, I know of numerous boys who have never stepped onto a rugby field who have natural speed, size etc, and have became 1st XV and 1st grade colts players. Yes Joeys have lots of talent that comes but theres a reason their younger age C and D teams will beat so many A sides, and that's the extensive coaching and nurturing that occurs, many boys that start off in those lower grade teams end up being 1/2 XV players because of improvements they made over the years as a result of the "special wallaby formula."
Ok, you have proven me wrong in this area, I admit. But about Gabriel Read, didn't you just prove your own point wrong saying schools don't create talent they receive it? If they transferred his skills from soccer to rugby isn't that creating talent? There's a viable point.
Oakhill was founded 40 years after Barker, and is a co-ed school that has recently established dominance in the ISA competition and other trial matches, and has created a strong rugby culture in the last 20-30 years? Zero scholarships, and a significantly less spending budget. There's a suitable comparison, Barker just isn't doing it right, that's the truth.
Oakhill did it, they had a much worse situation anyway. All Barker are doing are handing out scholarships on top of scholarships to have a gun first team, if that counts as an "unprecedented situation" then it sounds like a bloody good one to me. Maybe if they shaved some money off scholarships and relocated it into their younger and lower grades in age groups, they could be comparable to Waves Knox etc. But right now the way their doing things, I believe, is stupid and hopeless.
Look mate, i've made points, to which have got likes and agreements from different accounts, the same account has liked all of your posts, which is saying something. If you cannot see from a different perspective, maybe it's time to grow up a little and try. But judging by your username, there's a very slim chance of that happening. Happy Easter everyone!
KentwellCup>ShuteShield
Johnnie Wallace (23)
How does barker not have an established rugby culture?
Crashy
Dick Tooth (41)
Yeah I found that comment odd. As a 1994 leaver who played in a good 2ndXV I would beg to differ.
Speaking of, check out this video from 1930. Knox vs Barker. Looks like a rugby culture there. Good to see the physicality there between these 2 old rivals.
28 reactions | Barker vs Knox Rugby Match 1930 | #BarkerTurns130 This is the earliest footage we have of a Barker vs Knox Grammar School Rugby match. The game was played on July 19, 1930 at Barker.... | By Barker College Alumni | Facebook
#BarkerTurns130 This is the earliest footage we have of a Barker vs Knox Grammar School Rugby match. The game was played on July 19, 1930 at Barker....
www.facebook.com
RedOrDead
Charlie Fox (21)
Any school who struggles to field 4 opens teams has struggling rugby culture... Coming from someone who attended a GPS school it really isn't comparable.
RedOrDead
Charlie Fox (21)
This year yes. Other years no.
rod skellet
Desmond Connor (43)
Interesting pre season for Barker with the GPS comp going to a 2 round comp. Starting on the 29th April, Barker play, Riverview, Newington, St Pats, Nudgee (Qld), Stannies. CAS comp start on 3rd June. Barker plays Aloys away then is home to Waverly. Final game is Knox at Knox on 5th August. The game against Nudgee at Barker on 20th May will be interesting. Nudgee will be out for revenge after being spanked last year.
rod skellet
Desmond Connor (43)
For those interested Barker defeated Scots College Wellington today. Final score 48/5.