CAS Rugby 2023

[WLF3]

Are you insinuating the ARU does a good job of retaining schoolboy talent?

Or that you believe that St Leo's Billy Pollard, who is from a through and through rugby league family, and who I know for a fact said before he came to Barker wanted to play in the NRL... would he have magically picked union without ever playing it seriosuly?

It seems to me everything I have said has been completely logical.

Come on man. It's getting old. Knox does it, Kings does it, Waverley does it, Newington does it... etc. etc. etc. Accept it and move on. If it pushes more kids to union, or even makes it more of a possibility, I love it. Give me more of it. Schoolboy footy isn't that important where we should be getting upset about which school gives away more scholarships when in reality all schoolboy rugby is, is a way to create, nurture, develop and solidify union talent in the game. We are all union fans. What's good for Barker footy, is good for footy. What's good for footy is good for you as a fan.

RoD,

Aside from whether it is or isn't good for Rugby, my gripes are as follows.

By suddenly bringing in established superstars in year 11 or 12 it undermines the culture of rugby at schools, particularly for the younger boys who think they have a chance 1 day but then start to say "probably not" as some star will suddenly appear, having heard this first hand, and boys start to talk about all the new ring ins at the beginning of each new year. Let's not kid ourselves!

If schools are going to bring in new boys, imo, it should happen no later than year 9 so they have to prove themselves, and as we all know things change as boys grow, NOT in year 11 or 12 when they are bona fide superstars.

The other issue is for the parents who have paid fees for years only to have their boy, who has always been an A/B grade player, being shafted at the final jump. Until you have experienced that it tends to fall on deaf ears, BUT IT REALLY HURTS!

Finally I think the import strategy is fundamentally flawed because if you do it to excess people say "well you should have won the comp, you bought it", and then if that school fails to win then people rightly say " well aren't you guys a bunch of idiots".

It's a no win strategy imo, and thinking that winning at ALL cost is acceptable is as dumb as it sounds.

An acceptable reason though may be for safety reasons such as a front rower if your cohort is very poor and therefore there may be a safety reason. But these legit reasons are few and far between.

For mine these issues outweigh the opportunity given to a few select boys, who typically will never be seen at that school again.
We have also experienced the fact that the parents of these chosen few also typically give NO help to the BBQ , canteen etc where parents help out, they tend to swan around like they are above it all, have seen it many times 1st hand!

Rant over.

 

[Crashy]

Doug Philipson from Barker signed into the Force Academy. Anyone know his playing history?

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

You have to look no further then Barker's class of 2022. Sahyoun and sagala both were suited to league now they've opted to play colts for Eastwood over sg ball. These guys would've been lost to league if they didn't go to barker

Wouldn’t that simply be a sign of the pathways working?

Or no, all positive are Barkers success and negatives are pathways not working?

You can’t have this both ways.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

It's not that simple though. First off there's the issue of boarding at Barker boarding starts in year 10, a lot of the influx in the last few years has been boys who don't live in the area and need to board. Secondly, availability. Barker now has the highest enrolment of any school, fitting scholars in is difficult these spots only become available in later years if kids drop out. Also, what about interest from these kids? These boys might only decide they want to go to a private school in year 10

They all just happen to be in gen blue programs and in other private schools before they make those decisions… seems a bit ridiculous. Your head coach goes to u16’s tournaments and walks up to players offering them positions at your school to win a rugby comp. At least Oniti came from a public school and was actually offered a better opportunity to go to a great school - rugby gave him that chance. Kids like Poynton who are already enrolled at a private school are brought across for the Barkers rugby team to win matches. Plain and simple. That type of mercenary attitude is shit.

 

[Halfbackenthusiast]

Wouldn’t that simply be a sign of the pathways working?

Or no, all positive are Barkers success and negatives are pathways not working?

You can’t have this both ways.

That pathway wasn't from Aru though, was it? It was the schools taking ownership, it's not just Barker. Knox converted Mcleod who hadn't played union before attending and is now in the Brumbies academy. The system shouldn't rely on private schools cause then they lose all these incredibly gifted and hard-working young men from public and sports highs to league when they could be playing high level union

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

That pathway wasn't from Aru though, was it? It was the schools taking ownership, it's not just Barker. Knox converted Mcleod who hadn't played union before attending and is now in the Brumbies academy. The system shouldn't rely on private schools cause then they lose all these incredibly gifted and hard-working young men from public and sports highs to league when they could be playing high level union

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

Let's just be happy for the boys who receive such an opportunity to attend a great school, that can develop kids academically, and athletically etc. and let's be happy we get to watch good footy.

Except they already had exceptional opportunities coming from private schools. Barker just made it free so they can win a footy comp.

 

[Halfbackenthusiast]

Except they already had exceptional opportunities coming from private schools. Barker just made it free so they can win a footy comp.

Oh no they lost one to league!!!! Look at the gen blue 15s from 2019. Where are all those boys who stayed at public schools and sports highs now? That back row they had was exceptional and none of them are playing union and I promise you it's not cause of lack of ability but opportunity. Even non-GPS and CAS players, they've fallen through the system and all play league or don't play footy anymore. The system doesn't work it's over reliant on private schools and we have all these football nurseries in Western Sydney getting pilliged by league.

 

[dusk]

Kids like Poynton who are already enrolled at a private school are brought across for the Barkers rugby team to win matches. Plain and simple. That type of mercenary attitude is shit.

Exactly, this is the stuff that needs to be changed and insinuates that barker and other schools see these kids as products, not students.

 

[RedOrDead]

Except they already had exceptional opportunities coming from private schools. Barker just made it free so they can win a footy comp.

Don't be daft... Pollard, Katoa, Finau, Liam Jones etc were at public schools...

And let's not act like all private schools are equal. There are very few schools in the state on par with Barker... There's a reason parents accept the scholarship... if Lachlan Hooper's parents for example thought Stannies was a better school for him then they would have kept him there.

 

[RedOrDead]

They all just happen to be in gen blue programs and in other private schools before they make those decisions… seems a bit ridiculous. Your head coach goes to u16’s tournaments and walks up to players offering them positions at your school to win a rugby comp. At least Oniti came from a public school and was actually offered a better opportunity to go to a great school - rugby gave him that chance. Kids like Poynton who are already enrolled at a private school are brought across for the Barkers rugby team to win matches. Plain and simple. That type of mercenary attitude is shit.

Knox have as many scholarships as Barker this year. I hope you keep the same attitude champ. What a disgrace.

 

[Erastos Luccassen]

They all just happen to be in gen blue programs and in other private schools before they make those decisions… seems a bit ridiculous. Your head coach goes to u16’s tournaments and walks up to players offering them positions at your school to win a rugby comp. At least Oniti came from a public school and was actually offered a better opportunity to go to a great school - rugby gave him that chance. Kids like Poynton who are already enrolled at a private school are brought across for the Barkers rugby team to win matches. Plain and simple. That type of mercenary attitude is shit.

Poynton's older brother was a Barker student, pretty sure the rugby wouldn't have been the only reason he wanted to go there. The boarding starting in year 10 would definitely be the major factor in him moving at that year I'd say

 

[RedOrDead]

Poynton's older brother was a Barker student, pretty sure the rugby wouldn't have been the only reason he wanted to go there. The boarding starting in year 10 would definitely be the major factor in him moving at that year I'd say

Yes exactly what I was about to say. Poynton's brother graduated in 2019 and played 2ndXV. I have spoken to his parents about the school before and they love it, I'm sure his parents always planned on sending him considering his brother was already there.

 

[RedOrDead]

RoD,

Aside from whether it is or isn't good for Rugby, my gripes are as follows...

While I don't necessarily agree with everything you've said WLF3, I respect your opinion. I'm glad someone can critique this situation logically and in a mature manner.

 

[RedOrDead]

Doug Philipson from Barker signed into the Force Academy. Anyone know his playing history?

Don't know where he played his club footy, but I know he played his rep rugby for Central West and played 1stXV for Stannies in year 10 I believe (2020). He moved to Barker in year 11, and played 1stXV both years at halfback. Played NSW and was selected for Aus Schoolboys. He's a good kid, deserved every opportunity he's got. Natural leader and a real workhorse, will chase everything, and plays bigger than he is. Will throw his body at anything. Tough as nails too. Played the whole season last year needing a shoulder reconstruction. Watched him punch his shoulder back in place after dislocating it, get to the next ruck and throw a pass that made his shoulder pop out again... but he played the next week.

I imagine he will be the first choice academy halfback for Force, he is miles ahead of Tizzano IMO. Quite literally better in every aspect of the game, but Tizzano has been there longer so maybe that will play a factor.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Dog chasing it's tail here. Scholarship/Import/Bursary... whatever you want to call it, is part of the sport and it isn't going away. If some school chose not to do it, great, good for them. But people shouldn't necessarily be naming and whinging about kids by name IMO. Almost everyone can put the pieces of the puzzle together for themselves without a bunch of adults (by age) naming children on a Rugby forum.

I actually don't mind the idea of a cap if your school is going to do it. Might take away the criticism and speculation that ends up spraying the kids name and puts it straight back at the administration.

 

[Hankspank]

Dog chasing it's tail here. Scholarship/Import/Bursary... whatever you want to call it, is part of the sport and it isn't going away. If some school chose not to do it, great, good for them. But people shouldn't necessarily be naming and whinging about kids by name IMO. Almost everyone can put the pieces of the puzzle together for themselves without a bunch of adults (by age) naming children on a Rugby forum.

I actually don't mind the idea of a cap if your school is going to do it. Might take away the criticism and speculation that ends up spraying the kids name and puts it straight back at the administration.

My personal favourite is price matching. "Would you like your son to come to school X to play rugby?" No way we can afford the fees there mate. " How much are you paying now?" $12,000. " What if instead of the $35,000 we charge everyone else you pay the same as what you're paying now?"
Sounds good
With all the names you rolled out for the enducement systems you should add the Bunnings price match guarantee for a good player.

 

[AroundTheAnkles]

Oh no they lost one to league!!!! Look at the gen blue 15s from 2019. Where are all those boys who stayed at public schools and sports highs now? That back row they had was exceptional and none of them are playing union and I promise you it's not cause of lack of ability but opportunity. Even non-GPS and CAS players, they've fallen through the system and all play league or don't play footy anymore. The system doesn't work it's over reliant on private schools and we have all these football nurseries in Western Sydney getting pilliged by league.

To be fair the system has changed very dramatically in the past 12 months. The Academy games for U15 and U16 are examples of this, as is the way the contracting of certain high profile players was managed last year vs 2 years ago. The changes will continue and with the money coming into the game fewer will be lost. IDK why we worry so much about the NRL, rugby is a superior opportunity by any measure. Globally it eats league, provides better earning potential and much better post playing global networks and opportunities.

 

[Snort]

This is all pretty silly.

There are boys who see the two Rugby codes as interchangeable career opportunities. Many of them will go to League regardless of what school they went to, because League tends to offer professional opportunities earlier. League has 17 professional sides looking to fill a roster: Union has five professional franchises. So kids straight from school go on to six-figure contracts in the hope that they'll amount to something. For the most part, Union can't compete with that - and I actually think that's healthy. Yes, some talent is lost. But the best 17 year-old won't necessarily be the best 21 year-old, and League tosses a whole heap of 21 year-olds onto the scrapheap (by which time they may have missed an opportunity to acquire some other marketable skills). It's not a bad thing to earn a professional contract through something other than running around a few schoolboys. And handing kids big money contracts at a very early age can create a big social problem, which may partly explain why ex-NRL players are far more likely to be arrested than ex-Union players.

Look, it's a competitive market, and Union will always lose players to League. That's life. But it's not entirely a bad thing, because the players who stick with Union tend to do it because they prefer the game and because they're ready to step up to professional football. Long term, that produces healthier outcomes.

 

[The Front Rower]

Charlie Poyton a good example of this. A player Barker developed over years in their rugby system.

Charlie joined Barker in either year 9 or 10, previous to that he was at St Auggies.