All the talk of Knox and the extremity and money associated with their Rugby program, it is almost forgotten the occurrences of last season. Cranbrook won the premiership with a team that possessed great cohesion and players that knew their roles and played them to perfection. Waverley also beat Knox at home by showing great spirit and a desire to win, compared to Knox's attitude of "We're better than you". I believe the rugby program of Knox is overhyped and they can be beaten by any CAS team on their day. Chinks in the armour of their rugby team will be exposed and a rugby program and $150 grand coach won't save them.
CAS Rugby 2015
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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S
seanthesheep
Guest
Despite the continued commentary on Matt William's role and extraordinary pay packet, I feel that, without the cattle, he cannot do all that much to raise Knox's rugby playing standards. The only benefit of his role that I can see is that of making what would otherwise be a poor rugby team into a middling rugby team. I don't believe that the appointment of an international coach to coach temperamental teenagers will bring continued success without the need for scholarship players to be brought in.
Fred87
Frank Nicholson (4)
Knox have the cattle this year and next. Very strong group coming through - very fit, big, lots of training together. Knox should win everything by a lot this year.
Hearing Barker replacement for Maloney as coach of the 1st XV is a science teacher, who according to reports is actually teaching science classes. A very clear choice not to compete with Knox in the $ department.
Knox juggernaut continues to build on the enrollments side too. Hearing 360+ in year 7, after low 300's the last 2 years.
Hearing Barker replacement for Maloney as coach of the 1st XV is a science teacher, who according to reports is actually teaching science classes. A very clear choice not to compete with Knox in the $ department.
Knox juggernaut continues to build on the enrollments side too. Hearing 360+ in year 7, after low 300's the last 2 years.
M
M squad 2015
Guest
Inside word is that Barker's backs coach is the former Riverview head coach of 2008 (the successful GPS premiership year). A level 3 coach who has been mentored by the successful Dave Rennie (back to back premierships with the Chiefs in 2012 and 2013). Maybe some tactics and penetrating back line moves are to be the style of Barkers attack this year
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sidelineview
Guest
Hows that when Waves won the 14's and 15's last year?
They did pretty good in the 16's as well. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this year's CAS Comp will be very close. From all indications, it promises be tough for any team to win games. It should be a cracker of a season.
No one can afford to get cocky; Knox learnt that lesson last year ............
SonnyDillWilliams
Nev Cottrell (35)
I look at how strong an age groups B team is for a guide. Both 15As and 15Bs were cas premiers in 2014, so personally I think In 2015 best chance for waverley is in 16As ... However hope that doesn't put the moka on them
Whereas in 15As (last years 14As) think they have several exceptional players (2 in particular), but don't see that many b players that are knocking on the door
Always think it is smart to put some of best coaches on the b teams and 2nds
... And I see knox having more strong b teams, across the board ... Would be curious to know how many cas premierships were won last year by knox
Unless I am mistaken barker won the 2nd xv, in 2014, pipping knox
WavesToWin
Chris McKivat (8)
Big cash splashing, importing players and high-class sporting coaching and facilities will only you bring you so much success - its the bonds, friendships and team spirits that ultimately unite the team to push for that winning try in the last minute of the game. How can this be achieved when players are called in on scholarships from overseas and all over the country, just weeks before the start of the season.
Its the bond of the boys from day 1 in year 7, meeting for the first time in the playground and the relationships built over the next 4-5 years on the footy field. This is why we saw a stellar performance from Cranny last year, the mate-ship of the blood brothers who had put in all the work together. I think the Cranny and the Waves are the best examples of this and I believe is the reason Knox lack the experience to go all the way for the Henry Plume Shield this year. Thoughts?
Its the bond of the boys from day 1 in year 7, meeting for the first time in the playground and the relationships built over the next 4-5 years on the footy field. This is why we saw a stellar performance from Cranny last year, the mate-ship of the blood brothers who had put in all the work together. I think the Cranny and the Waves are the best examples of this and I believe is the reason Knox lack the experience to go all the way for the Henry Plume Shield this year. Thoughts?
formerflanker
Ken Catchpole (46)
If the players are too big, fast, and well drilled then the wonderful esprit de corps of their opponents will count for naught.
yes i agree who are the 2 players you talk about
WavesToWin
Chris McKivat (8)
I'm yet to see this in the CAS comp.
S
sidelineview
Guest
History doesn't support this statement.
Snort
Nev Cottrell (35)
Well: up to a point. Here's something I'd love to see on this forum (I'm not holding my breath) - a season that passes without people posting that School A has won because of its amazing spirit, whereas School B lost because of its bad attitude.
As a general rule, School A wins because it has better players, or is better prepared, or (very occasionally) has a lucky bounce of the ball (actually, if we're honest, the ref sometimes comes into it, too, but let's not go there). My observation of many decades of school Rugby is that pretty much every team that goes out there on a Saturday afternoon is committed and makes a genuine effort.
Team sprit is a strange thing. It can, sure, be developed in teams that pass through age groups together for six years. But it can also develop over intense training sessions and matches in the course of a single season. When I was in Year 12 at school, we had a few players who turned up at the school for the first time that year, who made the 1st XV (not, I hasten to add, on scholarships - back then it was quite common for parents to send boys to private school only for the last two years, as it was thought that this would give them a better chance of a decent HSC). I don't recall them being treated differently to anyone else, or contributing differently. Look - when you're on the bottom of a ruck, in the same coloured jersey, you don't think too much about the path you took to get there over the last five years. You're in it together.
Does that mean that team spirit counts for nothing? Not at all. A determined, spirited team will (very occasionally) upset a team with superior talents and athleticism. It's part of what can make the game great to watch. But, if I'm honest, if I were a coach and you offered me the choice between a so-so player who had been part of the group all the way through school, and the guy who played the same position for Australian Schools last year, well...
Done that
Ron Walden (29)
I agree.I have no association or loyalties with the Knox school,but I find it disappointing to read so many "bitchy" comments critiscising that school,many, seemingly, from supporters of Waverly College (?),particularly suggesting a lack of spirit in the Knox boys,compared to that of others. By all means talk up the positives of the school which you support,but let's keep the nastiness & criticism of schools which are your opposition,to yourselves. Ultimately the best team will win the competition,irrespective of the opinions & criticisms expressed in these pages.
Fred87
Frank Nicholson (4)
Arguments about team spirit are rubbish. All the boys love to play 1st XV and give it everything. I don't believe any of the CAS schools have superior spirit, despite what some old boys like to think.
I'm no Knox fan but training all summer with a professional coach does not translate into less team spirit. If anything it raises it because they have been through so much hard training together.
Cranbrook won last year because they consistently played good hard disciplined structured rugby. In the first round they played a great game against Knox (judging by reports at the time) and they had a great goal kicker. Superior spirit did not win the shield.
I'm no Knox fan but training all summer with a professional coach does not translate into less team spirit. If anything it raises it because they have been through so much hard training together.
Cranbrook won last year because they consistently played good hard disciplined structured rugby. In the first round they played a great game against Knox (judging by reports at the time) and they had a great goal kicker. Superior spirit did not win the shield.
M
M squad 2015
Guest
I agree with Snort on the basis skill > social structure- the perfect example that i noticed last season were the games was mainly with waverley - the selections were made on the social structure of the squad rather than skill and capability. After reading several posts on the forum last year, there was a common trend in voices from some parents who were unhappy with the promotion of 16s, overlooking those in the opens who were more capable to get a call up. E.g. the 2nd XV outside centre was dropped from the 1st Xv wing and was not looked upon again despite his consistent performances as easily one of the best backs for waves - overlooked for the 16As inside and Winger. Common trend seems to be favouritism of the 'youngins' not only in rugby but cricket and the dismal first V basketball
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
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S
sidelineview
Guest
Too true .. a combination of factors make for a good team or a good team performance on the day.
# Often, and through tradition, certain teams will lift against certain other teams.
# Home game advantage can be a huge factor.
# Preparation pre season and pre game is very important both physically and mentally. Having a good motivational coach can lift a team.
# A good game plan; team strategy, tactics can win games.
# Playing disciplined rugby wins many games. Penalties and mistakes determine a lot of games especially between evenly matched teams. A good smart team will beat a good dumb team.
# Onfield leadership ... a good captain can make wise decisions and control and lift his players.
# Team spirit is important .. some teams contain more courageous players who don't give up; stay upbeat. When both teams are even in this department you usually have a great match. But when team are unevenly matched in 'cattle' then an underdog team can show more spirit and courage and win. who doesnt like to see an underdog get up?
# Goalkicking. a big advantage for a team to have a good kicker. Example: Cranbrook and Knox last year. Cranbrook were far superior in this department.
# Physical fitness
# 'Cattle' you cant do much without the talent. Size and speed helps.
# Often, and through tradition, certain teams will lift against certain other teams.
# Home game advantage can be a huge factor.
# Preparation pre season and pre game is very important both physically and mentally. Having a good motivational coach can lift a team.
# A good game plan; team strategy, tactics can win games.
# Playing disciplined rugby wins many games. Penalties and mistakes determine a lot of games especially between evenly matched teams. A good smart team will beat a good dumb team.
# Onfield leadership ... a good captain can make wise decisions and control and lift his players.
# Team spirit is important .. some teams contain more courageous players who don't give up; stay upbeat. When both teams are even in this department you usually have a great match. But when team are unevenly matched in 'cattle' then an underdog team can show more spirit and courage and win. who doesnt like to see an underdog get up?
# Goalkicking. a big advantage for a team to have a good kicker. Example: Cranbrook and Knox last year. Cranbrook were far superior in this department.
# Physical fitness
# 'Cattle' you cant do much without the talent. Size and speed helps.
S
sidelineview
Guest
That's a subjective opinion.
You can't blame people for complaining about young players being favoured over older boys for 1st XV (or 1st XI). It's an argument that is had each year and usually by parents of older kids in the 2nds; it's understandable.
But last year the best teams were chosen for Wave 1st XV in my opinion. The coaches weren't shy of picking the best team regardless of outside opinion and regardless of the age of the players. What needs to be considered is a player, regardless of his age, needs to be able to handle the pressure of playing 1st XV. Age doesn't guarantee that or discount that. 'If you're good enough, you're old enough'. All 'youngens' from last season's Waves 1st XV performed well; some better than others and helped the team be successful after a rocky start.
The Waves cricket team is running a close 2nd now with a young Year 8 leg spinner in the team who is blitzing them. He is the best leggie in the school and handles it.
Coaches will be criticised no matter what team they pick; 'par for the course'. And parents of older boys in the 2nds or 3rds will complain.
Snort
Nev Cottrell (35)
It's a fine achievement to get to the 1st XI in Year 8 - hell, even I didn't make it until Year 9. But so far in the competition, the player you're referring to has done very well, and taken ten wickets at a touch under 22 each. That's a great effort for a Year 8 kid, but does not fall within any known definition of "blitzing them."
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