CAS Rugby 2014

[The Guardian]

Stay tuned whilst overseas for the results on Saturday.

By the way, Trinity thumped Waverley, the side that came second last year, 40-20, which is not dissimilar to the Knox V Waverley game yesterday.


Well....it actually is a bit different, as Knox conceded 31 pts against Waverley, which means their defense could be considered suspect.

This is against a side you claim will finish either 5th or 6th.

Trinity yesterday only conceded 8 points against Aloys, a feat which Cranbrook cannot boast either, as they leaked 17 points against Aloys.

In Waverley's CAS history of over 70 years I think you will find that this is only the second Trinity team ever to put 40 points on them.

Pre Season amounts to nothing Snort.

About 1/2 of the current 1st XV was either playing in the 2nd's or 16A's for the pre season, so this is a totally different look team, with a very different attitude, playing exciting fast running rugby.

No injuries to speak about this week, so at full strength, I'll put my money on a green machine Victory.

 

[The Guardian]

Sorry Post #531 was in response to Post #529.

 

[Rumble]

The truth of the matter is that Knox played badly. The referee did not help either side, he was underwhelming in the extreme!

The Knox coach will no doubt be all over what is a talented team which should have put away Waverley by 70 points. They were however uniquely selfish and failed to commit numbers to the rucks when needed. The 2 may run well but he contributes little other extra. This is the same for others who along with him will not pass ( especially also including todays 13 ) leaving overlap players stranded whilst they lose the ball or give away penalties. sw57 is clearly related to or works for the parents of players who produce perpetual "blinders" in his eyes but strangely no one else is privy to them, this undermines the quality and authenticity of his reports. Truthfully the 9 and 10 are very weak. The side takes a step forward when either are replaced. The 15 had a good game this week running well through a leaky defence. Others did the graft, both second rowers, the 6 and the 8 did what they could in the mess, creating opportunities for others to score . Watson should be marked down for creating a disruption in the form a backline reshuffle in deciding to play for the Roosters, bearing in mind how well Knox have treated him. But in the end he probably chose well as he would have received no ball anyway.

Knox will put away Cranbrook if they hold their nerve, listen to their coach, play to their strengths and of course kick well. If they don't play as a team and produce the sub - par rubbish of today they will go down badly. Perhaps it was the distraction of the Gala Day nonsense which detracted from the rugby as a whole, or coming off the heights of playing and beating Barker, one hopes so. In that vein how infantile is it to express disgust at the Barker performance today? They are plagued with injury presently. In the final run in with all hands on deck, don't be surprised if the beat Knox or Cranbrook later in the year. Knox beat them in their dream year , they can do it as well, without big names or fanfare.

Interesting about Watson playing for the Roosters. How many CAS 1st team players are going to end up playing NRL?

 

[RugbyFan14]

This is disgraceful from Barker. A school with their depth should never be beaten by St Aloysius or Cranbrook and the scoreline shows that development in all areas of the rugby program under the current coaches is sadly lacking. All to often in the last 7 years the 1st XV has been beaten by large scores and last years title can be put down to the young lad who came over from Kings and got them out of jail against Waverley and certainly not the development of their own program. In 2008 they came 4th, 2009 last, 2010 they won on the back of a very good Gordon junior side, not sure about the 2012 team but 2013 they would not have won without The Kings boy who was certainly not developed by them. A look at their performances in age groups will tell you they are not concentrating on the whole program.

Where to start with such a silly post?

Barker were premiers in 2005, 2006, 2010, 2012, & 2013
Jones was great in 2013, but remember the hole Barker backline made CAS I and Davis made Australia A

Barker squad and gameplan were very different in 2012 & 2013 - looked like very good coaching to me. These things go in cycles, you can't win every year (unless you recruit with sports scholarships which Barker does not). Everyone at Barker knows we are in for a tough patch. Last year Barker had only 3 teams in the 16's and the 15's group has never been strong. Of the 16A backline from 2 years ago none were on the park against Cranbrook - most have not come through.....

Barker had only 3 players returning from last year's CAS winning team and two were out injured in the Cranbrook match.

Take a look at the report from SmokingJoe (i think a Cranbrook supporter) - Barker were well drilled & played hard but Cranbrook were just better. Two years ago Cranbrook won the 16A's. They are allowed to have a good side. Let's give credit where it is due.

A final word on depth Barker 2nds and 3rds both beat Knox in close games and both comfortably beat Cranbrook.

It's not disgraceful. It is schoolboy rugby. Every year is different. The senior boys do their best proudly representing their respective schools, growing character and forming lifelong friendships. Even a defeat by 50 is not a disgrace if the players gave their best without quitting.

 

[Elfster]

Fair dinkum . So tired of people criticising referees. Everyone is an expert. That referee was fine. If you could do better . Go do the course. At the end if the day, without the referee, there is no game.

Between the criticism of referees and people making abusive remarks re schoolkids . And 99% of the time it is coming from someone that never played the game very well or makes no contribution of their time.

As the say, have a look at yourself!!

Agree. I do criticise refs, but as an ex-ref they do see things differently from those win the stands. In general they do try their hardest in a difficult and un-thankful task. The main faults are inconsistency and not having a feel for the game (i.e. too many pedantic penalties and not using advantage). In that more development may be required. So the people at fault there are those in higher levels. Again the ARU seems to be indifferent ( and callously so) to the base support group of the game they are representing.

 

[Artbeet]

Fair dinkum . So tired of people criticising referees. Everyone is an expert. That referee was fine. If you could do better . Go do the course. At the end if the day, without the referee, there is no gam
Between the criticism of referees and people making abusive remarks re schoolkids . And 99% of the time it is coming from someone that never played the game very well or makes no contribution of their time.

As the say, have a look at yourself!!

You have made an awful amount of assumptions here and we all know what they say about those tha assume. There needs to be accountability not excuses and pig headedness. Pedantic refereeing and subjective rules are why the code is struggling. How do you justify binning kids after 2 minute ?

 

[Pete King]

Thanks for your more expansive match report and, given I wasn't there your account is what we have to go on.

I suppose my issue with this whole CAS rugby thing is the sense that there appears to be two competitions within the competition. Those schools with a lot of money that can pay for name professional coaches and the others who use teachers and old boys. If either Knox or Cranbrook win the title this year then many will think that it was the money for the professional coaching that won it for them, and that this is what money and parents who are happy that funds are spent this way can do. This would be a shame given that I am sure that both schools have good players who have come through the school from Year 7 and may well have won it regardless of who coached them.

On your other issue I don't quite understand the causal link between paying for an ex-international coach and rugby blooming again at Knox. Interest in rugby is generated an many ways and you don't necessarily need to open the chequebook to do it. Many things are simply cyclical. Waverley for instance goes down to the 13Gs this year (which means more than half the year is playing rugby) but who coaches the 1sts had nothing to do with it. In fact the boys quite liked the idea that their Year 8 or 9 maths teacher taught during the day and also coached the 1sts after school (he's still teaching maths but is now coaching the 15As). Year 11 by contrast has always been a big soccer-playing year which is one of the reasons (but by no means the only reason) why this year the Opens are weaker than usual. Waverley also introduced AFL and has about 100 less kids in each year's intake compared to Knox so we face the same pressures and our challenges (given far smaller intakes) could be considered greater in keeping rugby alive than at Knox.

My fundamental problem with the way that this professional coaching issue has crept into the richer schools is that it means they have turned the coaching job into a business transaction. Achieve these KPIs or we'll hire somebody else. In return, coaches who are contracted are just as happy to be coaching (insert name here) as (insert name here). Teacher/coaches are invested in the school and the individuals, rather than simply the outcomes because they see the boys (which is what the players are) as something more than just a rugby player and therefore interact with them, and hopefully mentor them in completely different way than highly paid professional coaches would.

Then again, perhaps that's the socialist in me that hopes the CAS rugby scene is a level playing field and that everyone could just see who comes in the door in Year 7 and the odd additions through people who move into the area along the way, have a good teacher coach the 1sts and let the best team win. I'm getting the impression that this still only applies at Waverley and St Aloysius.

I hear Waverley turned down a application by a couple of old boys with significant professional playing and coaching backgrounds to coach the first and develop their rugby program. The sportsmaster an oldboy himself was pretty keen to coach the side.

 

[rtd32]

This is disgraceful from Barker. A school with their depth should never be beaten by St Aloysius or Cranbrook and the scoreline shows that development in all areas of the rugby program under the current coaches is sadly lacking. All to often in the last 7 years the 1st XV has been beaten by large scores and last years title can be put down to the young lad who came over from Kings and got them out of jail against Waverley and certainly not the development of their own program. In 2008 they came 4th, 2009 last, 2010 they won on the back of a very good Gordon junior side, not sure about the 2012 team but 2013 they would not have won without The Kings boy who was certainly not developed by them. A look at their performances in age groups will tell you they are not concentrating on the whole program.

This is an extremely unfair statement and clearly not well supported. First things first I am somebody who is VERY familiar with the Barker College rugby program and can happily say that sufficient, if not outstanding, effort and resources are put into rugby at ALL age levels - starting from year 7.

I will attribute the recent vicissitudes of Barker rugby at the 1st XV level to a number of circumstances. 1st, in 2007 the long standing coach of the 1st XV resigned after an altercation with the assistant coach - no further comment on the issue is necessary, it happens. This had an immediate negative impact on the performance of Barker rugby across the board - as would be the case in any team. The year 7's at the time - the future 2012 1st XV, 2nd XV, and 3rd XV champions - went down to F's and fielded a pretty mediocre 13A's team which would have come 3rd or 4th (most likely 4th from memory). The year 9 side at the time - the 2010 winners - were reasonably strong, and they went on to win the 16A's competition in 2008... To a degree you are right that this would've been due to a large number of them playing at a representative level (Gordon and I believe some may have played for Norths), as well as outstanding individual players in Tim Mitchell, Stu Goodman, Scott Goodman, Sam Figg and the list goes on... 2010 was undoubtedly one of the strongest teams that Barker has produced since probably the 2004/2005 era. Yet, we've seen teams with many big names come and go and not dominate to the same extent as this 2010 side and that is simply because they worked EXTREMELY hard in preseason together under the guidance of what was becoming an increasingly mature head coach (as well as head rugby coordinator) in Mr maloney.

However, the success of more recent years - 2012 and 2013 I put down to 2 main factors. 1) The aforementioned maturity of the head coach and Head Rugby Coordinator, Mr Maloney (I remember watching him do a training session with the Barker 7ths and 8ths a few years back, as well as many training sessions with the 13's age groups - the bloke is omnipresent on the Barker rugby fields). 2) In 2009 an old boy named Todd Cole came to Barker, having had a stint in teaching and coaching at Knox. He filled the role initially as the 15B's coach and 15A's assistant coach. Soon, his role became more generic in later years and he became more of a mentor for all age groups (below opens level) and is possibly one of the best coaches I have ever seen at a schoolboy level. He goes on tours with the boys and teaches them the basics, working particularly with the forward pack and set plays. Why do you think that all of a sudden in 2012 - despite barker having had the same 1st XV coach for 5 years - the forwards who, unlike in 2010 were a bunch of 'no-names' (aside from Tom Wilson), all of a sudden where exceptionally well structured and worked incredibly cohesively both in general play and set plays? This was the product of a specific aim and process that had started in 2009.

In 2013 Barker definitely excelled with the help of Harry Jones, but lets not forget that Harry had 2 brilliant wingers on his outside, 2 brilliant centres on his inside, and a very strong forward pack and halves. Tyson Davis had been playing in the 1st XV since he was in year 10 as well as Devon Stoltz. If you want I can go through the whole list
1. Slack-Smith - came on for an injured Edney in the 2012 winning side
2. Callum Landry - 2nd XV hooker in 2012 - needless to say that the 2nd XV that year were pretty much good enough to play in the 1st XV - at one point the parents on the sideline were saying that they should have had a Barker Red and a Barker Blue team because the 2s were that good.
3.
4. Leon Akopian - 2nds/3rds player in 2012
5.
6. Nick Burkett - 1st XV player 2012
7.
8. Theo Hanson - 1st XV player 2012
9. Steve Kirkby - 16A's 2012, went on to play CAS 1st XV
10. Dave Smerdon - 1st XV 2012
11. Tyson Davis - 1st XV 2011, 2012
12. Devon Stoltz - 1st XV 2011, 2012
13. Cameron Dove - 2nd XV 2012
14. Eddie Elwood Hall - 2nd XV 2012
15. Harry Jones

I've forgotten 3 names.

The fact is that if these boys hadn't played 1st XV before, then they'd probably played with each other in a winning, confident side the year before (the majority came up from an extremely dominant 2nd XV side in 2012)... The addition of Harry Jones definitely helped and was probably the reason why they beat Waverley in the first round but, I think that Waverley had their fair share of favourable calls in the 2nd game that evened the score.

Also, Barker always tends to not be good in the lower age groups. It's literally the first thing I was told when i went to my first training session when I was a student. But the focus is to build for the later years - when it matters more. Have a look at the boys in year 9 now. They're probably not doing too great, but I bet they'll place at least in the top 3 in 2017 if they work as hard as those before them.

 

[casrugby12]

predictions to make cas 1st and 2nd ??

 

[Lee Grant]

For those of you who have seen the blog of the CAS Round 2 matches—there is a photo gallery of the Cranbrook v Barker match up now.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/cas-round-2-review-knox-and-cranbrook-look-the-goods/

.

 

[Snort]

Stay tuned whilst overseas for the results on Saturday. By the way, Trinity thumped Waverley, the side that came second last year, 40-20, which is not dissimilar to the Knox V Waverley game yesterday. Well..it actually is a bit different, as Knox conceded 31 pts against Waverley, which means their defense could be considered suspect. This is against a side you claim will finish either 5th or 6th. Trinity yesterday only conceded 8 points against Aloys, a feat which Cranbrook cannot boast either, as they leaked 17 points against Aloys.
In Waverley's CAS history of over 70 years I think you will find that this is only the second Trinity team ever to put 40 points on them. Pre Season amounts to nothing Snort. About 1/2 of the current 1st XV was either playing in the 2nd's or 16A's for the pre season, so this is a totally different look team, with a very different attitude, playing exciting fast running rugby. No injuries to speak about this week, so at full strength, I'll put my money on a green machine Victory.

Look, I'd be happy if you turn out to be right. Unfortunately, each point you make has a counterpoint. For instance, it's true that Trinity hit 40 points against Waverley for only the second time (the 2011 premiers scored 46), but it's pretty rare for Knox to score fifty against Waverley, too. And, yes, Cranbrook allowed St Aloysius to score 17 points, but its margin of victory (20) was still higher than Trinity's (17). So the stats tell you a certain amount, but really what matters is how you assess the strengths and weaknesses of each side.

Knox, it seems to me, has two weaknesses - its lineout is a bit suspect and the backline defence is sometimes vulnerable. So that means that Trinity needs to give the ball to Barkley-Brown in space, and let him do his thing, and back up Saofia when he goes on one of those big charges. Saofia will breach the line, but doesn't have a whole lot of speed, so the quicker players need to support him when he makes a bust. And with Rasch and Filipo doing well at the lineout, maybe Trinity could plan some attack around its (surprising, after the last few years, but welcome) lineout strength. And - discipline. No silly penalties, no yellow cards.

Against that, Knox has probably the best forward pack in the competition (Widders-Leece, Pierce and Van Zyl are terrific) and the most penetrative back in Watson, assuming he plays. Plus they're fit and their support play is good. All of that makes them a tough proposition.

Mind you, there's one area where Trinity may have an edge. We don't talk about it so much these days, but Trinity's goal-kicking has been better than Knox's. It's making a difference at Cranbrook, too, where Renton seems to be landing them from everywhere. In a tight contest, this could be important.

 

[RugbyFan14]

Interesting to read Waverley have so many teams in Yr 7 - down to 13G's. Barker have only 4 teams in the 13's; Cranbrook have 4; Trinity 4; Knox have at least 7 since they fielded teams against all Waverley teams. Not sure about Aloys.

Knox have enrolled approx 300 boys in yr 7 the last 2 years. Along with their Knox Sports Academy with "professional coaches" - the numbers will tell in the end, notwithstanding the large number of other sports offered.

With all the talk of rugby programs we should perhaps keep a little perspective. These are schools not professional rugby clubs. Rugby is one of many co-curricular activities offered as part of an all-round education.

At most schools soccer is now more popular than rugby and AFL has gained a foothold. I have heard Barker was the last CAS school to admit AFL to the senior school (beginning this year). As far as this observer can tell the ARU does not support the schools (AFL does) and rugby is in secular decline.

 

[Scythe]

Interesting to read Waverley have so many teams in Yr 7 - down to 13G's. Barker have only 4 teams in the 13's; Cranbrook have 4; Trinity 4; Knox have at least 7 since they fielded teams against all Waverley teams. Not sure about Aloys.

Knox have enrolled approx 300 boys in yr 7 the last 2 years. Along with their Knox Sports Academy with "professional coaches" - the numbers will tell in the end, notwithstanding the large number of other sports offered.

With all the talk of rugby programs we should perhaps keep a little perspective. These are schools not professional rugby clubs. Rugby is one of many co-curricular activities offered as part of an all-round education.

At most schools soccer is now more popular than rugby and AFL has gained a foothold. I have heard Barker was the last CAS school to admit AFL to the senior school (beginning this year). As far as this observer can tell the ARU does not support the schools (AFL does) and rugby is in secular decline.

Aloys have two.....but still can compete for some unknown reason


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Snort]

Following up my last post - Sam Renton of Cranbrook has 41 individual points from two rounds. If you count pre-season, he has 90 from his last six games (he scored more in the trial against Shore, but I'm not sure exactly how many). Two things follow from this - he looks like the likely CAS 1sts 10 if Smerdon remains injured, and he gives Cranbrook the capacity to score a lot of points, which will keep them in contention in tight matches this season.

It's a credit to him because, to be honest, last year he played in the Firsts and didn't look outstanding. Obviously he has worked hard, and he's now a threat with the ball in hand as well as being a fine kicker.

 

[Scythe]

Following up my last post - Sam Renton of Cranbrook has 41 individual points from two rounds. If you count pre-season, he has 90 from his last six games (he scored more in the trial against Shore, but I'm not sure exactly how many). Two things follow from this - he looks like the likely CAS 1sts 10 if Smerdon remains injured, and he gives Cranbrook the capacity to score a lot of points, which will keep them in contention in tight matches this season.

It's a credit to him because, to be honest, last year he played in the Firsts and didn't look outstanding. Obviously he has worked hard, and he's now a threat with the ball in hand as well as being a fine kicker.

He reminds me a lot of berrick Barnes with his preference to use the boot and with his steady hands - and looks like his running game is improving week to week

Running rugby might not be the answer considering the backline isn't the strongest - but with a reliable forward back - regathering at the line out or forcing a penalty at the breakdown after a kick down field might be the option to place pressure on other sides


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Chosen]

Wonder if I could weigh in with a little history from Knox Rugby. Present Head of Sport, Chuck Ardron has beeen at Knox since early 1990s. In that time he coached 1st XV premierships in1995,1999,2000,20014,2003,2008 and 2009. He did not coach the team 2004-2007, when Paul Knight(director of all Co-Curriculalar Studies )coached the 1sts. Knight is a Joeys Old Boy & he is the one who introduced/employed old Joeys friend Williams. Over the last 15 years or more there has been a very strong `Black & Blue Knox Rugby Supporters' group which has both raised and poured a lot of money into Knox Rugby- tours,equipment etc(not bursaries or the like).
The ex-members of Black & Blue frankly have not been impressed with the apparent `shafting' of Chuck Ardron-let's face it Williams track-record is nothing to be excited about.
I was somewhat staggered to be told Knox No 13 couldn't play last Saturday due to League commitments-times have changed!

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

For some history, that Cranbrook would be hoping for a repeat of ... in 1994 when Dom O'Neil (Cranbrook co coach) was playing with Christian Warner .... it was Knox that were other contenders and Waves were cellar dwellers

COMBINED ASSOCIATED SCHOOLS (CAS) final standings
School W D L F A Pts
Cranbrook College 5 0 0 108 40 10
Knox Grammar 4 0 1 130 58 8
Barker College 3 0 2 104 62 6
Trinity Grammar 2 0 3 7 1 98 4
St Aloysius 1 0 4 35 118 2
Waverly 0 0 5 16 88 0

NSW Combined Associated Private Schools play NSW Combined High
Schools at Cranbrook Sept 3
NSW CAS first XV
J Costello (Knox)
A Baldoni (Cranbrook)
R Fuller (Knox)
T Cooper (Waverly)
M Abbot (Trinity)
D Nuta (Cranbrook)
D O'Neal (Cranbrook)
S Bush (Knox)
S Scott (Barker)
C Warner (Cranbrook)
N Taylor (Barker)
D Marshall (Knox)
T Lingard (Knox)
S Morris (St Aloysius)
P Sullivan (Trinity)
Coaches.. S Meade (Cranbrook) and J Laforest (Cranbrook)

That Renton is definitely playing great ... although he got smashed towards end of game ... looked like he chucked up ... and he left the field ... unless he copped a rib injury, I'd suggest he'd be fine by the Knox fixture

 

[Antony]

If anyone is after a good bunch of photos from the Cranbrook v Barker game, the facebook page "Cranbrook Ministry of Propaganda" has a good album up. The main thing I got from it is that the Cranbrook No. 8 is legitimately pretty big.

https://www.facebook.com/cranbrookministryofpropaganda666?fref=ts

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Interesting to read Waverley have so many teams in Yr 7 - down to 13G's. Barker have only 4 teams in the 13's; Cranbrook have 4; Trinity 4; Knox have at least 7 since they fielded teams against all Waverley teams. Not sure about Aloys.

Knox have enrolled approx 300 boys in yr 7 the last 2 years. Along with their Knox Sports Academy with "professional coaches" - the numbers will tell in the end, notwithstanding the large number of other sports offered.

With all the talk of rugby programs we should perhaps keep a little perspective. These are schools not professional rugby clubs. Rugby is one of many co-curricular activities offered as part of an all-round education.

At most schools soccer is now more popular than rugby and AFL has gained a foothold. I have heard Barker was the last CAS school to admit AFL to the senior school (beginning this year). As far as this observer can tell the ARU does not support the schools (AFL does) and rugby is in secular decline.

Yes Waverley is pleased with so many teams from much smaller intakes than the bigger schools. No idea why it is so popular in Year 7 but happy that the enthusiastic amateurism at the school is keeping the rugby flame alive. Agree on the 'sports academy' approach and the money being flung around. The reality is that at schools like Waverley and Aloys there is neither the money nor the inclination to go down that path. When the latest wunderkind gets parachuted in elsewhere or ex-international coaches are employed to coach 17 and 18 year old schoolboys all you can do is shrug your shoulders and tell the boys that money buys short-term loyalty but service has its own rewards. To paraphrase the IRA, when you're forking out the big bucks and have much larger student numbers and funds to draw from, you're expected to win every time to justify the expenditure. When you run on a shoestring, you've only to get lucky once to prick the 'sports academy' balloon. And believe me there is nothing more enjoyable than seeing well-resourced 1sts going away from Queen's Park with their balloon pricked (although I admit that this year most balloons may well stay inflated).

Regarding the AFL, I do agree that they are well-funded, well-organised and predatory and put the ARU to shame in supporting the grass roots. The fear at Waverley was that AFL would pull kids away from rugby but the numbers are capped for a start and there are actually more kids playing rugby now than when AFL was introduced. No in-depth analysis as to why but it appears that rugby's physical contact suits the boys here and they don't get enough in AFL so it has taken people largely (but not exclusively) from the non-rugby players. i think the other issue is that the boys also like the mateship and knowing if you're playing for the Ds then some of your mates are in the Cs or Es or elsewhere and are mostly at the same ground so you can catch up and have a bit of fun with your mates. The AFL is a bit isolating and it's play your game and go home which marks it as different (not in a nice way) from rugby. That's based on an extremely unscientific analysis of watching the boys interact (as well as the objective data regarding the jump in rugby numbers).

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

Yes Waverley is pleased with so many teams from much smaller intakes than the bigger schools. No idea why it is so popular in Year 7 but happy that the enthusiastic amateurism at the school is keeping the rugby flame alive.
.

Yes interesting that Knox, in particular hasn't got more teams. Guessing they are like Shore, where I gather that for the first time ever Golf has been accepted as an official sport.

On one hand these schools like Shore and Knox have military-like structures, with sergeant majors, rigid rules and regulations ... however when it comes to some things (ie sport) they seem happy to hand-out a lot of choice, to a generation that (going by my kids) demands it ....

Personally I am not a fan of giving too much choice to kids ... but who am I to say ...

In terms of rugby .... the structures at a Knox, reflect on the field ... across all the age groups, you hear the coachs drilling in concepts with language like "hold our structure"

whereas Waverley which seems to have this part Christian brother, part surfer dude culture , has a "rabble" mentality

in terms of rugby, it's like this "mad dog" approach of fearless kids running at the line ... only to be isolated by better structured teams

anyway makes for interesting contrasting styles ... although in 2014 sounds like Waverley hasn't got the troops to successfully implement their brand of rugby

reckon Cranbrook will put 40 on Waverley this weekend, despite Waverley trying to use the "death valley" passion to make a match of it