CAS expansion

[Snort]

C


Cripes, wasnt Brett Gale formerly a police Detective?

He was. I do hope he got things back on track - he was (back when I knew him) a very nice guy, unspoiled by his sporting success and not at all bitter about being outshone by his younger brother.

Hell West & Crooked, I think we agree on the big point - the CAS would be better as an 8-school competition, and SPC would have been a good fit for one of those spots.

 

[thejuggler]

"And just quietly, as a former TCS rep, I take exception to the "forgettable" reference to that comp. St Augustines, St Pats, Chev, Oakhill, St Leos Waitara and of course, St Pius enjoyed fairly competitive comps in most grades and I have fond memories of games against all of them. Chev (my old mob) and St Leos were pretty good rugby schools in those days.

I do not recall St Augustines being involved at all - perhaps they were a school that Chevalier trialled against?

I recall you had a Main Oval made of 'Concrete'.

Was it not the gradual concentration by St Leos and Oakhill on Rugby League that lead to their departure - and the eventual disintegration of the TCS? My memory tells me that by the mid-70s, Leos and Oakhill were having trouble fielding the required depth in various age-groups.[/quote]

Augies were indeed part of the old TCS, but you're equally correct that they were an in and out school as various headmasters went for rugby then to league and back again. I don't recall Oakhill ever flirting with league, but am happy to stand corrected. Leos, on, the other hand, definitely turned into Mungoes.

Our Main Oval, at Chev, had a xricket pitch in the middle, the rest was great for rugby and still is!

 

[Harv]

Interesting post, Hell West & Crooked. But not terribly accurate.

First, St Patrick's was a guest in the CAS competition from, I think, 1978 to 1983. It won no "unofficial" 1st XV premierships in that period, although its teams were certainly very competitive. It is simply wrong that "to remind them they were 'guests' these Premierships were never officially recognised." First, they won none - and secondly, nobody's premierships were recognised in this period. Not Knox, nor Barker, nor Trinity, no-one. "Official" CAS premierships were discontinued in 1941 and not revived until (I think) 1988.

What did happen was that St Pat's caused an element of confusion as to who the Premiers were, because some schools counted the St Pat's game in the "unofficial" tally and others did not. Thus in 1979, if I remember correctly, both Waverley and St Aloysius claimd the premiership on the basis that St Pat's beat (otherwise undefeated) Waverley and lost to St Aloysius (whom Waverley beat). But St Pat's (who lost to Trinity) were not in the hunt on any count. In 1980, Trinity claimed the "unofficial" premiership by omitting its loss to St Pats.

You may or may not be right about Knox - I don't know. And I don't doubt that sectarianism may have been a factor. But you've left out the most important point, which is St Pius. St Pats was invited to compete as a guest along with St Pius. No-one wanted to add just one more school, because that would have created a bye, which wasn't desirable. St Pius did not distinguish itself. Its rugby teams were not very competitive, but did attract a reputation for dirty play, while it had little ability to field teams in other sports (St Pats fielded cricket teams for instance - St Pius did not). So in the end what really killed St Pats chances of joining was the fact that they were yoked to St Pius, who did not come up to the mark.

I don't know what happened after 1978 -- well, I do, 1979, but my point is, Pius and Pats played to a draw in the final 'unofficial' CAS game in 78 which was to decide who was the best performed team in that CAS 'comp'. I played for Pats and I think the only loss we had was to Knox -- courtesy of an intercepted pass that was headed in my direction -- but I digress. The word was always that CAS would never happen because Pats was a Christian Bros school and traditionally Waverley liked to wave that flag. Additionally, schools like Knox were opposed to any more of us bloody catholics.

The TCS comp had folded the year before ... no Auggies in those days ... league was an issue for a few schools -- talent poaching, rather than any moves to play the sport within the school. Oakhill, as I understand, struggled with the Parra Eels influence and even my Pats mob had the Magpies grabbing a few of us which caused, er, problems. Leos just faded away I think...were they one of the first co-eds on the north shore? I dunno. The TCS comp, despite being a ramshackle affair had some great talent and it was great to eventually see teams like Pats, Oakhill and Stannies find a home with the ISA.

 

[Elfster]

I am actually finding the rejuvenation of this thread quite interesting; with stories and memories of the late 70's. It seems such a long time ago...are we all that old!!!

 

[Snort]

Harv, 1978 was an interesting year - the CAS competition was very close but it's not quite true to say that St Pius and St Pats played off in the last round to see who had the best record in the CAS, because if you counted St Pius and St Pats, and simply awarded two points for the win and one for the draw, then the result was actually a three-way tie. The table, had there been one, would have looked like this:

Knox W4 D1 L2 - 9
St Pats W3 D3 L1 - 9
St Pius W3 D3 L1 - 9
Aloysius W4 L3 - 8
Cranbrook W3 D1 L3 - 7
Barker W3 D1 L3 - 7
Waverley W2 D1 L4 - 5
Trinity W1 L6 - 2

The oddest feature about the season was the high number of draws - four in the seven rounds. I remember the Trinity team being hopeless, and they were pounded by Aloysius in the first round, but went down to St Pats only 3-9 in a tryless game and lost to Barker 4-6. If the present method of deciding the winner on points difference had applied, then Knox would have won - they beat St Pats 13-0, St Pius 31-0 and Trinity 23-3.

This wasn't a bad year for the CAS. They thumped the GPS 1sts at Chatswood Oval and nine CAS players were chosen for NSW Schools. Four came from one school - three in the Firsts. Care to guess which school? St Pius, right? Nope - no representatives. Then St Pat's? No: zero. Surely Knox? No, though Rob Davis got in. Yes, Waverley managed three NSW Firsts players and one in the Seconds. Strangely, their coach was the NSW 1sts Manager! And a selector! And people complain about bias today.

 

[Snort]

Three more observations on 1978 for geriatrics with too much time on their hands.

1) On the chaotic premiership table: if you discounted the St Pius and St Pats games, the team with the best record was St Aloysius - so no fewer than four of the eight schools claimed a "premiership" that year.

2) On CAS selections: there were two players in the competition who within a few years of leaving school represented NSW at senior level - Peter Fitzsimons (Knox) and Dene Glasson (Trinity). Neither was chosen in any of the three CAS teams that year (although Glasson had played CAS 2nds the year before).

3) On St Pius: in earlier posts I said that St Pius weren't very strong, and I admit that I overlooked their 1978 performances. Even so, they won only three from seven that year, and it was the school's best effort by some distance.

 

[RugbyTears]

Whoa ! My memory of the 1978 CAS comp started flooding back while reading all these. I do remember no one knew who won - at our school we didn't care because we certainly didn't win But two events still very clear to me until this day -- CAS beating GPS at daggy Chatswood Oval and Steve Cutler wining lineouts for Knox without having to even jump. He was soooo much bigger than everyone else (mind you in those days we were all midgets compare to kids these days). Snort, how the hell can you recall all these ???

 

[Snort]

Whoa ! My memory of the 1978 CAS comp started flooding back while reading all these. I do remember no one knew who won - at our school we didn't care because we certainly didn't win But two events still very clear to me until this day -- CAS beating GPS at daggy Chatswood Oval and Steve Cutler wining lineouts for Knox without having to even jump. He was soooo much bigger than everyone else (mind you in those days we were all midgets compare to kids these days). Snort, how the hell can you recall all these ???

Well, mostly because my head is full of useless crap. For instance, Steve Cutler's last year was 1977 not 1978. He was miles taller than anyone else, you're right. But then remember that Mick Mathers won a few caps for Australia in the second row in the early 80s, and 6 foot 2 was a generous estimate of his height. These days he'd be too short to play hooker.

 

[RugbyTears]

Well, mostly because my head is full of useless crap. For instance, Steve Cutler's last year was 1977 not 1978. He was miles taller than anyone else, you're right. But then remember that Mick Mathers won a few caps for Australia in the second row in the early 80s, and 6 foot 2 was a generous estimate of his height. These days he'd be too short to play hooker.

Cartoon Pig, you are absolutely right. Cutler was 1977 ! Help me out again, Snort ..... what year was it when Barker had those giant backs who were also really fast. Ran rings around us.

 

[Snort]

Cartoon Pig, you are absolutely right. Cutler was 1977 ! Help me out again, Snort ... what year was it when Barker had those giant backs who were also really fast. Ran rings around us.

Barker had some pretty handy backs in 1978 and 1979 - I suspect you're thinking of Dave Wall, who played NSW Schools on the wing in 1979. I remember him as fast and strong and generally quite intimidating. When Trinity went to Barker in early 1979, we had an attacking lineout early in the game, and one of our props got the ball and charged ahead towards the line. For some reason he decided to pass, Wall intercepted, and a few seconds later scored under the posts at the other end. In 1978, Barker had Bucky Weeks and a guy called Fear in the centres, and they were pretty handy, too. Weeks wasn't that big, but he was a solid customer. He was one of those all-round sporting heroes - 1st XI cricket in Year 8, 1st XV, swimming champion - who never seemed interested in doing much once he left school.

 

[RugbyTears]

Barker had some pretty handy backs in 1978 and 1979 - I suspect you're thinking of Dave Wall, who played NSW Schools on the wing in 1979. I remember him as fast and strong and generally quite intimidating. When Trinity went to Barker in early 1979, we had an attacking lineout early in the game, and one of our props got the ball and charged ahead towards the line. For some reason he decided to pass, Wall intercepted, and a few seconds later scored under the posts at the other end. In 1978, Barker had Bucky Weeks and a guy called Fear in the centres, and they were pretty handy, too. Weeks wasn't that big, but he was a solid customer. He was one of those all-round sporting heroes - 1st XI cricket in Year 8, 1st XV, swimming champion - who never seemed interested in doing much once he left school.

Yes , Snort . .... those were the bastards ! Names all ring a bell now. Remember they also had a skinny guy in the wing with blonde hair called Lanz who ran the 100m in 10 flat ?

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Yes , Snort . .. those were the bastards ! Names all ring a bell now. Remember they also had a skinny guy in the wing with blonde hair called Lanz who ran the 100m in 10 flat ?

In '77 or '78 Waverley had a serious NSW Sprinter - or Hurdler, on their Wing - and I think in '80 they probably had their strongest side ever - if I am not getting the years wrong - had a forward who was a big name at the time but never really kicked-on... may have made it to NSW Tahs...

 

[Snort]

In '77 or '78 Waverley had a serious NSW Sprinter - or Hurdler, on their Wing - and I think in '80 they probably had their strongest side ever - if I am not getting the years wrong - had a forward who was a big name at the time but never really kicked-on. may have made it to NSW Tahs.

You're thinking of Michael Marano, who played NSW Schools on the wing in 1978. Waverely was pretty strong in 1980, fielding three future Wallabies in Tim Kava (the forward you're thinking of, who became one of those Wallaby tourists who never played a Test) and the Burke brothers, Brad and Matt. Yet Trinity won the "unofficial premiership" that year. Kava and Matt Burke were still there in 1981, and I'm pretty sure Waverley won that year.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I don't know what happened after 1978 -- well, I do, 1979, but my point is, Pius and Pats played to a draw in the final 'unofficial' CAS game in 78 which was to decide who was the best performed team in that CAS 'comp'. I played for Pats and I think the only loss we had was to Knox -- courtesy of an intercepted pass that was headed in my direction -- but I digress. The word was always that CAS would never happen because Pats was a Christian Bros school and traditionally Waverley liked to wave that flag. Additionally, schools like Knox were opposed to any more of us bloody catholics.

The TCS comp had folded the year before . no Auggies in those days . league was an issue for a few schools -- talent poaching, rather than any moves to play the sport within the school. Oakhill, as I understand, struggled with the Parra Eels influence and even my Pats mob had the Magpies grabbing a few of us which caused, er, problems. Leos just faded away I think.were they one of the first co-eds on the north shore? I dunno. The TCS comp, despite being a ramshackle affair had some great talent and it was great to eventually see teams like Pats, Oakhill and Stannies find a home with the ISA.

Harv... If I am not mistaken, was there not a brief-if-informal tie-in around 1978 between the Strathfield 1st XV and the Magpies - at least in terms of the 1st XV using Wests Physio, and perhaps trainer? I definitely remember some activity around the old Lidcombe Oval... They had a pretty damn good coach at that time, too
.

 

[GTPIH]

You're thinking of Michael Marano, who played NSW Schools on the wing in 1978. Waverely was pretty strong in 1980, fielding three future Wallabies in Tim Kava (the forward you're thinking of, who became one of those Wallaby tourists who never played a Test) and the Burke brothers, Brad and Matt. Yet Trinity won the "unofficial premiership" that year. Kava and Matt Burke were still there in 1981, and I'm pretty sure Waverley won that year.

Waverley did win in 1981 with both Burkes and Kava, and all three made the 1981-82 Schoolboys undefeated UK Tour that included other future Wallabies Lynagh, Papworth, Harthill, Knox, Tuynman, Ian Williams and Lillicrap .

If I recall, in that year CAS 1's comprised 11 Waverley players beating GPS 1's with 11 Joey's players (Joeys Centenary year). Rumour has it that Waverley challenged Joeys to a game and Joeys declined.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Not the only time that has happened...

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Some would claim that this is still going on.

Not restricted to Joeys. There were issues with the Battle of Bellevue Hill last year as well.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Waverley did win in 1981 with both Burkes and Kava, and all three made the 1981-82 Schoolboys undefeated UK Tour that included other future Wallabies Lynagh, Papworth, Harthill, Knox, Tuynman, Ian Williams and Lillicrap .

If I recall, in that year CAS 1's comprised 11 Waverley players beating GPS 1's with 11 Joey's players (Joeys Centenary year). Rumour has it that Waverley challenged Joeys to a game and Joeys declined.

Ahh... Papworth.... What a Lost Talent he was...

 

[Harv]

Harv. If I am not mistaken, was there not a brief-if-informal tie-in around 1978 between the Strathfield 1st XV and the Magpies - at least in terms of the 1st XV using Wests Physio, and perhaps trainer? I definitely remember some activity around the old Lidcombe Oval. They had a pretty damn good coach at that time, too
.

Mate, the link with Wests was frowned upon. I know cause I was more or less it, along with a really fine player, Paul Cundy who ended up turning out for Balmain. It was all good in 77 when I played for Pats firsts then I got crook at the start of 78 and a bunch of mongrels at the school thought it was bungin' it on so I cld play grade for the Maggies. It got intense cause a few Wests officials started turning up to first XV training in 78. The coach in 78 was Brother Evans who later topped himself having been accused of fiddling with kids. Obviously he had a real hands-on approach ... not sure he was much of a coach. It was a fine team, although I still think the 77 side, much less successful than 78, was one of the best footy sides I played with. Matt Williams, the former NSW coach was a intelligent, though appallingly slow centre in the 77 team. He was a terrific flanker playing out of position.

 

[Peabody]

Mate, the link with Wests was frowned upon. I know cause I was more or less it, along with a really fine player, Paul Cundy who ended up turning out for Balmain. It was all good in 77 when I played for Pats firsts then I got crook at the start of 78 and a bunch of mongrels at the school thought it was bungin' it on so I cld play grade for the Maggies. It got intense cause a few Wests officials started turning up to first XV training in 78. The coach in 78 was Brother Evans who later topped himself having been accused of fiddling with kids. Obviously he had a real hands-on approach . not sure he was much of a coach. It was a fine team, although I still think the 77 side, much less successful than 78, was one of the best footy sides I played with. Matt Williams, the former NSW coach was a intelligent, though appallingly slow centre in the 77 team. He was a terrific flanker playing out of position.

Matt Williams is now the Knox coach - should be an interesting reunion at St Pats this Saturday