Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?

[Braveheart81]

I'd like to think that this argument is trotted out due to the feeble performances of Bernard Foley over the past 3-9 matches.
The signs were there in the Wales game that he was out of form. However he kicked straight from between the two 15m lines and the 40 so everyone was happy to overlook it..

Then there was France.

Then there was Ireland.

And Regarding "non-waratahs players being left out of the side".

Kyle Godwin.
Matt Hodgeson.

Hodgson is unlucky not to be there but we rarely pick two 7s and regardless of how much you dislike Hooper, he's unlikely to lose his spot.

Godwin is unlucky in that To'omua and Leali'ifano are fighting it out for the 12 jersey which wasn't settled at the start of the tour and Godwin only plays 12 (particularly for his eventual test debut). He's unlikely to get a bench spot just as a 12 and no coach is likely to just give him a cap because he's on tour when they consider him the third best option in that position.

 

[Braveheart81]

I haven't framed it as the coach being a moron for not selecting him to start BH. As I have previously said, Cheika's failing is that he has only used a single flyhalf, who most punters, pundits and coaches would agree may not be the best option, for all but 10 minutes of the test matches so far. My issue is Cheika being seemingly reluctant to look at anybody else.

So we've got Foley who is inconsistent? Either plays average and kicks well (from low difficulty attempts), or plays better and kicks average?

He selected Cooper to play against the Barbarians. Does that game not count for looking at Cooper because it wasn't a test?

He's also seen him a couple of times off the bench and every day at training.

Still, Cheika is failing because at this stage he doesn't agree with people on an internet forum whose only insight into the situation is the 80 minutes of the game each week.

 

[I like to watch]

I thought going into this tour,that 10 was one of the most contestable positions.
Add the fact that it is one of the more influential roles within the team,I assumed that a few options would be explored over the course if the tour.
Instead we have seen one player,who has not excelled in each game,play the first 230 minutes in his preferred position.
What have we learned?
What are our alternatives if he is injured?
I am happy for QC (Quade Cooper) to to be dropped from the squad,if he doesn't suit the structure.
But I reckon he deserves to fail in his actual position before we decide he is not up to it.

 

[Tip]

We don't know whether Cooper is close to his best. He wasn't when he started a few weeks ago against the Barbarians but he's been good in the last two games off the bench.

I don't think anyone would mind him getting a start against England but the way you've framed it is that the coach was a moron for not selecting Cooper to start against Ireland and it will be the worst decision of all time not to select him to start against England.

Foley also had a substantially better game against Ireland than he did the week before against France despite his goalkicking being worse.

1) Was what Cooper produced against the Barbarians worse than what Foley has trotted out over the past 3 weeks? 95% of people would say no

2) Foley was better against Ireland, merely because he didn't do as much. If you don't do anything you can't do anything wrong. To'omua ran the shop

I think most people agree that Cooper at his best is better than Foley. I doubt that would be 95% of posters here. Regardless, you've just plucked that figure out of thin air. It's meaningless.

3) GAGR should have a front page post, with a vote. "Who should be Wallabies 10". Foley, Cooper, To'omua, Godwin.
However, calling his 95% figure bullshit after stating that "most people would agree that Cooper at his best is better than Foley" is exactly that, bullshit. You can't call the bullshitter out for bullshitting without providing your own evidence to the contrary, otherwise you're at risk of becoming an ironic paradox.

P.S. Last time I checked 95% is "most people"

 

[Sully]

So this thread despite my best efforts has descended to the same level of dross that fills countless other threads on this site. Such small mindedness. You went okay for a while but then someone bought out the same tired argument and you all bit with your same programmed replies. Even with a clear path to guide you all.....

 

[Sully]

Actually anyone saying this player or that player is better, worse, hairs too long, not from somewhere will have the entire post deleted from now on.

 

[Tip]

The thread is titled: Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?

It's a discussion thread regarding whether or not the current gameplan and tactics of the Wallabies can work.

This discussion will also encompass a debate on who is the best man to implement the Game plan Chieka wants.

 

[Sully]

No if you read my first post it's not.

 

[Tip]

I know it works. I've seen it work for the Waratahs.

But they had a two full pre-seasons and all of 2013 (perhaps some of 2014) to get it right. With the limited preparation time the Wallabies have can his systems be put into place with out picking 23 Waratahs?

We seem to be leaking points while the new defence system beds in. This is not what I'm refering to in this post. I'm certain that aspect will improve. It's more the attacking style of play that I'm interested in hearing peoples opinions of.



Please keep you state bias out of it. This is a Wallaby question.

What is the point of commenting on the "attacking style of play" if you can't comment on the players enforcing it, and can't postulate whether the inclusion of certain players may help Cheika in implementing his attacking style.

 

[fatprop]

Well I must be part of the 5%, I like Foley's play, not as showy as others, but works his arse off in support and is our best option to attack the gain line

 

[Pfitzy]

I think QC (Quade Cooper) or Foley can implement the game plan.

But we need more hard work and balance from the pack before we start talking shit

 

[Train Without a Station]

So this thread despite my best efforts has descended to the same level of dross that fills countless other threads on this site. Such small mindedness. You went okay for a while but then someone bought out the same tired argument and you all bit with your same programmed replies. Even with a clear path to guide you all...

Well I guess pretty much everybody outside NSW (to have posted) think it can't because those who have commented on kicking games of certain players. Which would be irrelevant if we thought it could work.

 

[Pfitzy]

Well I guess pretty much everybody outside NSW (to have posted) think it can't because those who have commented on kicking games of certain players. Which would be irrelevant if we thought it could work.

Which indicates they might only see the game plan they want, not what Cheika wants? See fatprop's post above

 

[Train Without a Station]

Which indicates they might only see the game plan they want, not what Cheika wants? See fatprop's post above

I actually almost replied to that.

What happens when you can't just run over everybody? Bang off 40m kicks and slowly get pinned into your half?

Executing a hard running game is affected by factors beyond your control such as weather and pitch conditions. If you can't suit your game to the conditions you will limit your success to when the conditions suit your game.

 

[Tip]

Hang on guys! Important news.

The Rugby World Cup will be held in ENGLAND next year.

Unfortunately, kicking (smartly) is a necessary evil. Unless you want a 14 man D-line rushing at ya. Then by all means, keep running into a brick wall, go nowhere and expect different results.

Oh wait, we already did that. Against France.


Edit: TWAS - we must operate on the same wavelength (some of the time)

 

[Lorenzo]

It is a game plan that doesn't want too much kicking, first option is to play bal in hand

Yeah, that's a good plan for the Rugby World Cup - "hope plan A works"

These 30-28 style scorelines aren't going to persist into the pointy end of the RWC. If our only available approach is "ball in hand" we're completely and utterly fucked.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah, that's a good plan for the Rugby World Cup - "hope plan A works"

These 30-28 style scorelines aren't going to persist into the pointy end of the RWC. If our only available approach is "ball in hand" we're completely and utterly fucked.

Presumably Cheika was relying on the fact that the RWC starts in September next year rather than a couple of weeks after he accepted the job.

 

[Tip]

Very interesting that it's the coach, whose problem was not engaging the players who took on board the players input to develop the game plan that suited the team best. Yet it's the coach who tells the players it's this way or you're gone who apparently best engages the players.

It's my belief that a Head coach should similar in all but name to a dictatorship. After all, the buck stops with them.

Coaches who run poor dictatorships can be fired even if their team are champions. (Nucifora)
Coaches who run good dictatorships can be fired even if their teams playing like shite. (Graham)

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, that's a good plan for the Rugby World Cup - "hope plan A works"

These 30-28 style scorelines aren't going to persist into the pointy end of the RWC. If our only available approach is "ball in hand" we're completely and utterly fucked.

Ok two points

One, the coach has already started the mantra of trust the game plan (and that plan is not about a lot of kicking)

Two, RWC? we won't be at the pointy end of the RWC because we didn't kick enough, more likely our scrum being battered

 

[Lorenzo]

Presumably Cheika was relying on the fact that the RWC starts in September next year rather than a couple of weeks after he accepted the job.

So what? If we go in with Bernard Foley the primary out-of-hand kicker, we're fucked. We're going to get pinned in our own half with no viable exit plan when the um, just hit it up I guess approach fails.

Or is the plan that Foley adds a second of hang time and 15 metres to his punts before the RWC?