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Calling a Quade a Quade and a spade a spade

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FairWeatherAussie

Ted Fahey (11)
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...o-lead-lions-to-australia-20120822-24muz.html

Shirley, Dean's position has to be getting close to untenable now.

Since the professional era there has been an unwritten rule, you don't ever criticize the selection of any team-mate, no matter how bad they might be. I don't think I've ever heard any player criticize the selection or status of another of their teammates. It's just not done, and it's not very clever either.

Likewise with coaches. No matter how bad a coach considers his opposition coach, it is just not good form and not clever to try to put that coach down with anything more than a tv sound-bite. I don't think I've known of any criticism except that done in a cautious and respectful way. Henry's "I don't think I'd be coaching the AB's if I'd lost to the Wallabies ten times in a row" or whatever he said exactly about Deans, is the only one I can think of the verged on being close to disrespectful. I'm sure someone could contradict me by finding comments made by opposition coaches about PDV, there must have been several. But even with PDV I can't remember offhand any big put-down by other coaches.

Which makes the joking contempt that Gatland holds Deans even more exceptional. It's easy enough for all of us on GAGR to say that Dean's selections and gameplan were terrible, we have nothing to lose. But for Gatland to say the same thing and to joke that he shouldn't last another week is hugely risky for himself. Gatland's not stupid. He knows that even with terrible selections and a bad gameplan, Australia are still capable of matching the Lions. So to make a statement as bold (and self-immolating as that if they lose), he has to be very, very confident that either Deans will not be coaching the Wallabies when we they play them, or that if he is, they will walk all over us.

I'm hoping it's the first option.
 
F

FairWeatherAussie

Ted Fahey (11)
Just to summarize the interview with Gatland :

a lack of X-factor players had left them “vulnerable”

'I thought they were disappointing, and I was surprised with the style of game they played (don't worry, you're not the only one)

'I thought the All Blacks should have been 15, 20 points in front. I think the Wallabies will find Eden Park really tough this weekend

'A lack of attacking flair, through a combination of injuries* and selections*, had dulled the Wallabies’ cutting edge (*Injuries = a part of the game, *selections = the coaches fault)

'When Genia plays well he’s fantastic; you have someone like Quade Cooper... (first Henry, now Gatland...)


As for Eden Park :
'It could be quite a big score ...

'Robbie Deans might be looking for a job next week as well
 
It is what it is

It is what it is

John Solomon (38)
Of all the professions out there you would think coaching would have a set of gentlemen's rules.
Very few coaches finish their careers without being sacked at least once.
Suggest Gatland reads Henry's book with a focus on the Lions coaching experience chapter.
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Warren Gatland is a knob of the highest order. He has a history of making these sorts of remarks. Remind me again Warren how your teams have done against the Wallabies over the years? I make it 3-0 against the Ireland team he coached and 7-1 in his time with Wales.
 
redstragic

redstragic

Alan Cameron (40)
The_Brown_Hornet said:
Warren Gatland is a knob of the highest order. He has a history of making these sorts of remarks. Remind me again Warren how your teams have done against the Wallabies over the years? I make it 3-0 against the Ireland team he coached and 7-1 in his time with Wales.
Click to expand...

There's the test in the spring tour this year he has already won an of course the Lion's tests he has won next year so his for and against is looking better than to 10-1 you allude to.
 
Bardon

Bardon

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Gatland comes out with this kind of crap all the time. In 2009 he said that the the Welsh players all hated the Irish just before a grand slam showdown game in Cardiff. Declan Kidney had no need for a rousing team talk after that and Ireland went on to win the game and clinch the grand slam.

If say Ian McGeechan thought the same about Deans he would wait until after the Lions tour to say anything. Even then someone with the class of McGeechan would put it in terms of exploiting areas he felt his team was better rather than making a personal attack on the opposition coach. Gatland loves to gloat before the fact and often ends up with egg on his face.

Personally I don't think that the Lions will destroy Australia because it's harder and harder to mould a scratch team in the professional era and the combinations start to click too late in the tour. Additionally Gatland's Wales have gone through a bit of a revolution of late and not in a good way IMHO. They've moved from being an exciting team with lots of set plays and dummy runners to a team that crabs across the pitch and relies on the big units (or what Gatland refers to as his x-factor players) to break the gainline. I'm sure that kind of evolution is familiar to many Oz fans.

Wales deservedly won the 6Ns this year as they had all those x-factor players fit and they performed and pulled it out of the bag in tight games. Just like Australia did in last years Tri-Nations. But a few injuries to key x-factor players like Roberts and they found it really hard to breach the Australia defence. When they did it was the big units on the wings that created the hole and not Gatland's tactics.

Personally I think Gatland is on the same track as Deans but maybe a year behind on the downward curve, his break to take charge of the Lions may add another year to his Welsh career but I would be surprised if he's Wales coach at the next world cup.

Finally I'd like to say that I don't agree with current players or coaches making comments about other players or coaches. Leave that stuff to the pundits and the fans. There will be plenty of time to slag people off once you've retired but while you're active in the game try to conduct yourself with a little style even if it's not natural to you.
 
Groucho

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
FairWeatherAussie said:
Shirley, Dean's position has to be getting close to untenable now.
Click to expand...

Because Gatland sledged him? I've clearly been whooshed. Warren Gatland selects our officials? Maybe if his team had just beaten us he'd have some credibility but they lost 3-0, despite a better scrum and better backs across the park.
 
Richo

Richo

John Thornett (49)
This might be the first time I've seen people reflexively, if only implicitly, defend Deans since the RWC.

Maybe it's Gatland's fiendish plot to rally support behind Dingo and thereby keep him around until 2013, ensuring that his Lions face inept selections, no game plan, and a team increasingly confused as to why the hell their coach is still around. Fiendish, I say. Fiendish.
 
Riptide

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
FairWeatherAussie said:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...o-lead-lions-to-australia-20120822-24muz.html


Which makes the joking contempt that Gatland holds Deans even more exceptional. It's easy enough for all of us on GAGR to say that Dean's selections and gameplan were terrible, we have nothing to lose. But for Gatland to say the same thing and to joke that he shouldn't last another week is hugely risky for himself. Gatland's not stupid. He knows that even with terrible selections and a bad gameplan, Australia are still capable of matching the Lions. So to make a statement as bold (and self-immolating as that if they lose), he has to be very, very confident that either Deans will not be coaching the Wallabies when we they play them, or that if he is, they will walk all over us.

I'm hoping it's the first option.
Click to expand...

This is classic Gatland; he is not afraid to give a good quote. It takes the pressure and media focus away from his players and their performance and his hide is tough enough to deal with any comeback. He has done this from the very first.
 
Riptide

Riptide

Dave Cowper (27)
Bardon said:
Wales deservedly won the 6Ns this year as they had all those x-factor players fit and they performed and pulled it out of the bag in tight games. Just like Australia did in last years Tri-Nations. But a few injuries to key x-factor players like Roberts and they found it really hard to breach the Australia defence. When they did it was the big units on the wings that created the hole and not Gatland's tactics.

Personally I think Gatland is on the same track as Deans but maybe a year behind on the downward curve, his break to take charge of the Lions may add another year to his Welsh career but I would be surprised if he's Wales coach at the next world cup.

Finally I'd like to say that I don't agree with current players or coaches making comments about other players or coaches. Leave that stuff to the pundits and the fans. There will be plenty of time to slag people off once you've retired but while you're active in the game try to conduct yourself with a little style even if it's not natural to you.
Click to expand...


Strongly disagree. Gatland has re-made Wales twice during his tenure; he completely rebuilt the team to win two Grand Slams. With Wasps, he led them to 2 HEC trophies and numerous Premierships with a team Wasps that had previously won absolutely nothing. Under him,. the Chiefs won their first provincial championship in I don't know how many years.

With Wales, he takes responsibility for his selections and plucks kids from obscurity and gets them to play with confidence on the big stage. Gatland picked those players and found ways to put them in winning positions whether Roberts was on the field or not (he wasnt for most of the recent slam).

Gatland is on an upward trajectory here; he is not Deans. And I absolutely love that he speaks his mind to the press rather than give obscure, neutered coach speak.
Gatland did not prepare theWelsh side to play Aus on their recent tour; Howley did, and it showed.
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
Groucho said:
Because Gatland sledged him? I've clearly been whooshed. Warren Gatland selects our officials? Maybe if his team had just beaten us he'd have some credibility but they lost 3-0, despite a better scrum and better backs across the park.
Click to expand...

Erm, you must remember Gatland wasn't coach at the time. It can hardly be called "his team".
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
This is a weird thread: everyone here, almost, thinks Deans should be gone this week and yet their defending him against one of his own suggesting he might be look for a job next week.
I love it.
He may be a dickhead but, at the moment, he's our dickhead!
PS - I'm not saying he is a dickhead its just a polite version of something I once heard said about a bloke.
 
The_Brown_Hornet

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
Inside Shoulder said:
This is a weird thread: everyone here, almost, thinks Deans should be gone this week and yet their defending him against one of his own suggesting he might be look for a job next week.
I love it.
He may be a dickhead but, at the moment, he's our dickhead!
PS - I'm not saying he is a dickhead its just a polite version of something I once heard said about a bloke.
Click to expand...

Large amounts of truth in that, but it's also got a lot to do with how much I dislike Gatland's public persona. He often comes off as being a massive dickhead.
 
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