Brumbies v Waratahs, Sat 27th Feb, Canberra

[mst]

I am somewhat bemused as to why some posters, not hard to work out who, seem to relish seeing one franchise going completely down the shitter. As I said a few years back when the Reds were off the rails, it doesn't serve Aus rugby well to have this situation evolve. It's no-one's fault but the NSWRU and Waratahs organisations, but if we learned nothing from years of being dominated by NZ Super Rugby (and the All Blacks), if the parts are all stronger, so is the whole.
Kudos to the Brumbies, and to what the Reds are doing, but like it or not, the NSW market is big, and a lot of players come from the system, so having it implode cannot be a good thing in the long term.

Spot on with you comment. Its not good for the game, and its not a great watch on FTA! Its not the product any rugby fan should want to be put on public display.

Personally somewhere in-between the hyperbole and throwing the baby out with the bathwater the were some positives for the Tahs and questions about the Brumbies.

I am hoping the Tahs younger players will take some learning from that game be better for it. Tahs were better than last week with a re-adjusted mould through injury. Moeroa seems to work well in the centre and there were patches that looked really good including scoring the try. Lineout looked ok. It also needs to be acknowledged that they really did have much opportunity. Undeniable they were awful times but its a steep learning curve and they need time. Rome was not built in a day.

For all the supposed Brumbies dominance they blew opportunities through some dropped ball and a few silly options. They also kept the Tahs in the game due to ill discipline.

IMHO the fact that thus far we have seen several different styles of play and different game plans from all of the teams I will be a little nervous about the Brumbies prospects until we have played every team.

The Rebels showed upsets are possible and the Force showed last week they are no easy beats. Teams who can resist getting sucked in to their own hype, (and supposed superior fitness or anything else) and learn from the failings rather than spiral downwards, might just mature and evolve well and pop up with a surprise at the right end of the season. A Kiwi upset would be a good reward.

 

[Adam84]

Yep, pre test season I don’t think many picked Swinton on Super Rugby form, but he got selected on his potential and we saw the best and worst of him against the AB’s.... if he has some consistency in between red cards the position is his.

As for Valetini - he’s been in barnstorming form, and started last year the same, but again needs some consistency.... looked good in those last couple of tests he came off the bench for.

Good to see him being utilised a bit more in the lineout, but he might continue to be an impact player at test level.

I’ve made no secret that I don’t think Valetini hasn’t played as well as his Brumbies supporters think he has especially in 2020, I could dig up the posts from last year where I explained why. But mostly I don’t think he was nearly as effective as he should have been, one or two big plays a match were often followed with going missing for much of the game, this was reflected in stats as well.

However that been said, I think Valetini is playing much better in 2021 and actually playing to the standard that warrants his name been put forward for a starting wallaby position. I’ll be interested to see whether the same stands once they’ve played each other all once, I suspect they’ve now played the two teams likely to finish bottom in Super Rugby AU.

I also disagree that Swinton was just picked on potential for Wallabies in 2020, I thought his Super Rugby performance stood out last year and he deserved his selection based on what he was doing, and his potential.

 

[Slim 293]

I’ll be interested to see whether the same stands once they’ve played each other all once, I suspect they’ve now played the two teams likely to finish bottom in Super Rugby AU.

Yep, Brumbies have looked good, but need to see how they go against the Reds and Rebels before I get too excited............

 

[Rebels3]

Only thing we have learnt so far is that the Tahs are a very ordinary team.

In the first game the Reds could of easily put another 15/20 points on them if they executed a little better. It was also marginally a better Tahs team with Gordon, Perese and Walton available.

Game two, they were blown off the park against a vastly superior team.

We will know more this week about the Force and Rebels and find out if we have a league of haves and have nots or if the Reds and Brums were that good or the Tahs were that bad.

 

[molman]

Yep, Brumbies have looked good, but need to see how they go against the Reds and Rebels before I get too excited....

I'd even argue against The Force take two it could be interesting. You had a rather settled Brumbies squad up against a squad which while it had some of the spine of last years campaign had a lot of new injections. I suspect the gap will close somewhat between all the squads as the season plays out.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Really enjoyed the quality of the Brumbies performance and wow Len Ikitau really impressed and firming up for 13 wallaby position at this stage....even with quality of other candidates....namely Hunter who ain't too shabby....nice problem to have...

Maybe future long centre combo of Hunter and Len with Petatia on wing or at FB....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'd even argue against The Force take two it could be interesting. You had a rather settled Brumbies squad up against a squad which while it had some of the spine of last years campaign had a lot of new injections. I suspect the gap will close somewhat between all the squads as the season plays out.

Yep I reckon Brumbies, Reds, Force and Rebels in the mix with poor old tahs clear favourites for the spoon. Brumbies without doubt the front runners after quality of performance against Tahs as irony was Tahs probably an improvement on last week.

 

[Hawko]

I thought that the Tahs were significantly better than they were last week, probably 20 points better. They were improved by their experience last week and will be improved by this week too. But they lost by 50.

The undeniable message from that game is that the Brumbies were a class above the Waratahs. They played at a level that will have the Blues and Crusaders hoping that they go off the boil before they get to the trans-Tasman. I would argue that only Maddocks was better than his opposite, and even then his display was not without several faults. Every other Brumby player was better than his opposite, and the teamwork of the Brumbies left the Tahs looking worse than they were. Some of the Brumbies play was virtually undefendable.

That said, the Tahs were going into 2021 with the poorest squad in SuperAU and this season has to be about developing a squad that can take on the competition next year and beyond. The idea that Penney should be culled immediately is just lazy, cheap analysis. He has a squad of development players that have no hope of beating teams with the quality of the Brumbies and Reds, and who will struggle to be competitive with the Force and Rebels. They need time to develop. The good ones will rise to the top and those without the mental strength will fall by the wayside.

Had we shit-canned Gibson two years earlier and elevated Cron, then we would not be in this position. We are in the fourth year of the consequences of that stupid, stupid mistake with our best players all moved on and with a bunch of U-23's replacing them. Right now, only Maddocks and Gordon would make the Australian wider squad on form and neither would be in the 23 if selected tomorrow. We do not have the cattle. So, like the Force last year, we just have to try to be competitive where we can and develop new talent as quickly as possible. Penney's record as a coach suggests he has the skills to do that; not so sure about his assistants.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I’ve made no secret that I don’t think Valetini hasn’t played as well as his Brumbies supporters think he has especially in 2020, I could dig up the posts from last year where I explained why. But mostly I don’t think he was nearly as effective as he should have been, one or two big plays a match were often followed with going missing for much of the game, this was reflected in stats as well.

However that been said, I think Valetini is playing much better in 2021 and actually playing to the standard that warrants his name been put forward for a starting wallaby position. I’ll be interested to see whether the same stands once they’ve played each other all once, I suspect they’ve now played the two teams likely to finish bottom in Super Rugby AU.

I also disagree that Swinton was just picked on potential for Wallabies in 2020, I thought his Super Rugby performance stood out last year and he deserved his selection based on what he was doing, and his potential.

Yeh Valetini 2021 version much improved. Swinton was raw but showed a lot of mongrel aggressive talent and definitely deserved his wallaby shot and despite red card his 20 mins showed not out of place.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I thought that the Tahs were significantly better than they were last week, probably 20 points better. They were improved by their experience last week and will be improved by this week too. But they lost by 50.

The undeniable message from that game is that the Brumbies were a class above the Waratahs. They played at a level that will have the Blues and Crusaders hoping that they go off the boil before they get to the trans-Tasman. I would argue that only Maddocks was better than his opposite, and even then his display was not without several faults. Every other Brumby player was better than his opposite, and the teamwork of the Brumbies left the Tahs looking worse than they were. Some of the Brumbies play was virtually undefendable.

That said, the Tahs were going into 2021 with the poorest squad in SuperAU and this season has to be about developing a squad that can take on the competition next year and beyond. The idea that Penney should be culled immediately is just lazy, cheap analysis. He has a squad of development players that have no hope of beating teams with the quality of the Brumbies and Reds, and who will struggle to be competitive with the Force and Rebels. They need time to develop. The good ones will rise to the top and those without the mental strength will fall by the wayside.

Had we shit-canned Gibson two years earlier and elevated Cron, then we would not be in this position. We are in the fourth year of the consequences of that stupid, stupid mistake with our best players all moved on and with a bunch of U-23's replacing them. Right now, only Maddocks and Gordon would make the Australian wider squad on form and neither would be in the 23 if selected tomorrow. We do not have the cattle. So, like the Force last year, we just have to try to be competitive where we can and develop new talent as quickly as possible. Penney's record as a coach suggests he has the skills to do that; not so sure about his assistants.

No way can you cann Penny as called it out when tahs squad announced that very weak squad and Penny will have his work cut out. He needs to also be able to spend full salary cap as spending $1m under given already depth and quality issues makes his task hardest one to achieve anything above wooden spoon. Best is to show improvement but expectations need to be very low for tahs this season as they definitely lack quality cf other squads.

 

[Pfitzy]

OK. If you want to gloat, then gloat. But don't falsely accuse others of bleating. Enjoy your night

Some people are just happy to watch every other team burn down

But at least we've got our Wallabies team picked already, eh?

Never been convinced by Dempsey.

Not quite enough bulk for 8. Not quite nugget enough for 7. Not quite enough height for 6. It's a weird one.

 

[wamberal]

Not quite enough bulk for 8. Not quite nugget enough for 7. Not quite enough height for 6. It's a weird one.

Eddie Jones would turn him into an inside centre.

 

[Pfitzy]

Dunno.
As with everything in rugby, all I can rely on to answer your question is what my memory serves up - that joining players must do so from behind the ball carrier and stay there.

Maul was cleared up a couple of years back: join from the last feet and the ball must be passed back. Players can no longer move in the maul once bound, either swimming forward or backward.

I still think they need to change the Law to discard the restart i.e. "use it once" should just be "use it or lose it". Would speed the game up.

 

[Pfitzy]

As for Valetini - he’s been in barnstorming form, and started last year the same, but again needs some consistency.... looked good in those last couple of tests he came off the bench for.

Good to see him being utilised a bit more in the lineout, but he might continue to be an impact player at test level.

Agreed - I watched the game again and in the first half he was very quiet. His history is a player whose workrate is directly proportional to ball proximity i.e. if he's not carrying it or having the ball carrier come to him, he seems disinterested.

That may simply be a product of Brown and Samu doing a lot of the dirty work to free him up, but Valetini walked a lot in that first half until the Brumbies were well on top. May have simply been the game plan to accelerate after halftime, but Dave Rennie isn't going to know that.

 

[fatprop]

Agreed - I watched the game again and in the first half he was very quiet. His history is a player whose workrate is directly proportional to ball proximity i.e. if he's not carrying it or having the ball carrier come to him, he seems disinterested.

That may simply be a product of Brown and Samu doing a lot of the dirty work to free him up, but Valetini walked a lot in that first half until the Brumbies were well on top. May have simply been the game plan to accelerate after halftime, but Dave Rennie isn't going to know that.

In that article Rennie did in the Aus, there was two consistent comments on the pigs, better/good foot work in contact and getting off their arse quickly, we have very few forwards nationally that meet that criteria

 

[wamberal]

When Valetini first burst onto the scene, I thought he looked like an absolute world beater. He is certainly pretty close to Test match standard these days. However, I cannot see him starting unless we have a #8 who is a very good lineout option.

 

[Pfitzy]

I am somewhat bemused as to why some posters, not hard to work out who, seem to relish seeing one franchise going completely down the shitter.

It starts with Fluffy and ends in Bunny.

Kudos to the Brumbies, and to what the Reds are doing, but like it or not, the NSW market is big, and a lot of players come from the system, so having it implode cannot be a good thing in the long term.

Have been part of a tweet thread with Ben Darwin who has some pertinent points to make about org structure, direction, and priorities.

It is all well and good to look at how big NSW is, but a bigger count of people means a bigger count of dickheads.

 

[rodha]

Really enjoyed the quality of the Brumbies performance and wow Len Ikitau really impressed and firming up for 13 wallaby position at this stage..even with quality of other candidates..namely Hunter who ain't too shabby..nice problem to have.

Maybe future long centre combo of Hunter and Len with Petatia on wing or at FB..

Yes, I would like to see Petatia convert to fullback. There are plenty of quality centre's coming through.

The Wallabies just don't have any depth at 15 whatsoever..

It's genuinely appalling compared to the plethora of options the All Blacks have available.

Tom Banks is serviceable at best, Haylett-Petty is old & Maddocks isn't nearly the finished product.

 

[cyclopath]

It starts with Fluffy and ends in Bunny.



Have been part of a tweet thread with Ben Darwin who has some pertinent points to make about org structure, direction, and priorities.

It is all well and good to look at how big NSW is, but a bigger count of people means a bigger count of dickheads.

Nail. Head.

 

[Pfitzy]

Nail. Head.