Brumbies v Waratahs, Sat 27th Feb, Canberra

[sendit]

Yes, I would like to see Petatia convert to fullback. There are plenty of quality centre's coming through.

The Wallabies just don't have any depth at 15 whatsoever..

It's genuinely appalling compared to the plethora of options the All Blacks have available.

Tom Banks is serviceable at best, Haylett-Petty is old & Maddocks isn't nearly the finished product.

With his ball security where it is at the moment i don't want him anywhere near FB

 

[formerflanker]

Maul was cleared up a couple of years back: join from the last feet and the ball must be passed back. Players can no longer move in the maul once bound, either swimming forward or backward.

Well that never happened in at least one try scoring occasion. Should have been penalised not awarded a try.

 

[Braveheart81]

One way World Rugby could go a long way to trying to lessen the advantage and impact of the rolling maul in professional rugby would be to send all maul tries to the TMO to adjudicate on. Normalise maul tries being disallowed because someone has swum forward or back and not transferred the ball etc. to make sure that teams scoring from them are at least doing it technically correctly.

At the moment it is pretty inconsistent and doesn't seem to be one the TMO inserts themselves in like other situations. How often do we see the TMO getting involved in a maul try suggesting that the referee should review something?

 

[mst]

Maul was cleared up a couple of years back: join from the last feet and the ball must be passed back. Players can no longer move in the maul once bound, either swimming forward or backward.

I still think they need to change the Law to discard the restart i.e. "use it once" should just be "use it or lose it". Would speed the game up.

I also like keep it simple. It forms, has to go straight ahead, no deviations, shapeshifting or splitting. The hooker or player off the back to dive over is fine.

Personally I like the idea if it stops, you use the ball immediately you lose it.

I also like the idea of treating the players as adults so we can cut out the need for kids coaching like having to tell them to "use it" etcs. They know the rules, we should not need to waste time reminding them.

 

[Drew]

I think the three goes from the maul is excessive from 5 meters out. A well organised maul like the Brumbies is going to be unstoppable with multiple stops to use to regain momentum, let along one. I feel the ref generally is looking to penalise the defending team halting the momentum of the maul illegally instead of how the attacking teams momentum is gained. The defending team also has to worry about penalties in the red zone, which could leave them a player down. It doesn’t seem an even contest for possession to me. TMO wouldn’t hurt, but maybe at the discretion of the ref?

 

[dru]

I also like keep it simple. It forms, has to go straight ahead, no deviations, shapeshifting or splitting. The hooker or player off the back to dive over is fine.

Personally I like the idea if it stops, you use the ball immediately you lose it.

I also like the idea of treating the players as adults so we can cut out the need for kids coaching like having to tell them to "use it" etcs. They know the rules, we should not need to waste time reminding them.

How did the maul stop? If it's been out-pushed, fine. If it's something illegal, as it often is, it is trickier. Bloke at the back doesn't know. Ref needs to speak I think.

 

[Viking]

I thought that the Tahs were significantly better than they were last week, probably 20 points better. They were improved by their experience last week and will be improved by this week too. But they lost by 50.

The undeniable message from that game is that the Brumbies were a class above the Waratahs. They played at a level that will have the Blues and Crusaders hoping that they go off the boil before they get to the trans-Tasman. I would argue that only Maddocks was better than his opposite, and even then his display was not without several faults. Every other Brumby player was better than his opposite, and the teamwork of the Brumbies left the Tahs looking worse than they were. Some of the Brumbies play was virtually undefendable.

That said, the Tahs were going into 2021 with the poorest squad in SuperAU and this season has to be about developing a squad that can take on the competition next year and beyond. The idea that Penney should be culled immediately is just lazy, cheap analysis. He has a squad of development players that have no hope of beating teams with the quality of the Brumbies and Reds, and who will struggle to be competitive with the Force and Rebels. They need time to develop. The good ones will rise to the top and those without the mental strength will fall by the wayside.

Had we shit-canned Gibson two years earlier and elevated Cron, then we would not be in this position. We are in the fourth year of the consequences of that stupid, stupid mistake with our best players all moved on and with a bunch of U-23's replacing them. Right now, only Maddocks and Gordon would make the Australian wider squad on form and neither would be in the 23 if selected tomorrow. We do not have the cattle. So, like the Force last year, we just have to try to be competitive where we can and develop new talent as quickly as possible. Penney's record as a coach suggests he has the skills to do that; not so sure about his assistants.

I agree with Banks and Maddocks. I feel Banks has used his pace and running lines as a weapon in super rugby the last 2 years but he hasn't added anymore bows to his string and he is even looking a little slower then before. Unfortunately, I am not seeing him warrant a wallaby jersey with these performances. I would much rather Maddocks, despite all his faults at this point. I do love Bank's kicks for touch, but he just isn't threatening at all in attack.

Based not only to the start of this season but the end of last season.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Eddie Jones would turn him into an inside centre.

Dempsey seemed to hit his peak a few years ago and played top notch rugby including at wallaby level but failed after injuries to ever get back there. Does not look like changing so his overseas stint planned can understand as chances of being in wallaby mix are Buckley’s and none at this point.

 

[formerflanker]

They know the rules, we should not need to waste time reminding them.

The "game management" philosophy of refs is in every facet of the game - tell the players what to do/not to do and avoid having to penalise them.

 

[rodha]

Dempsey seemed to hit his peak a few years ago and played top notch rugby including at wallaby level but failed after injuries to ever get back there.

Oh yeah.. for some reason, I remember that period very clearly.. like it was only yesterday. Him & McMahon were in the form of their lives. That 2017 rugby championship campaign (ending with the win in Brisbane against the All Blacks) was the peak of Cheika's Wallabies from the 2016-2019 cycle. It was kind of sad how everything seemingly turned to custard after that..

That 2017 Wallabies group looked to have real promise, but they never kicked-on after that Brisbane win, which was actually Ledesma's last test (it seemed after Mario left they were never quite the same).

That following EOYT was particularly dark times for Wallaby fans. Ending in that historic 57-24 defeat to Scotland.

 

[Derpus]

Oh yeah.. for some reason, I remember that period very clearly.. like it was only yesterday. Him & McMahon were in the form of their lives. That 2017 rugby championship campaign (ending with the win in Brisbane against the All Blacks) was the peak of Cheika's Wallabies from the 2015-2019 cycle. It was sad how everything seemingly turned to custard after that.

That 2017 Wallabies group looked to have real promise, but they never kicked on after that Brisbane win which was actually Ledesma's last test (it seemed that after Ledesma left they were never quite the same)..

That following EOYT was particularly dark times for Wallaby fans. Ending in that historic 57-24 defeat to Scotland.

2017 was average at best.

 

[mst]

The "game management" philosophy of refs is in every facet of the game - tell the players what to do/not to do and avoid having to penalise them.

Is this in fact potentially one of self manufactured issues that is reality a negative aspect for the game?

Penalise and remove the issue instead of "managing" wilful non-compliance through repeated ongoing negation while still enabling it to impacting the game and opposition. Players now expect latitude in the application of the laws and IMHO use "game management" analogous to a misbehaving child consciously testing boundaries. Not many other sport I can think of require this extent or type of game management.

 

[rodha]

2017 was average at best.

Well.. relatively speaking, it was probably the best of a bad bunch, (of that 2016-2019 World Cup cycle), but even without that context it sure wasn't pretty either..

It was the last time all key players were in excellent form - Hodge, Genia, Beale, Foley, It was also Folau's best year form-wise.

And additionally with some gems uncovered such as McMahon, there was the nucleus there for a great team going forward.

It's a shame most of those key players like (Genia, Beale, Foley) ended-up well past their best by 2019. It was a bridge too far by then. That World Cup came 2 years late for Cheika's Wallabies.

Imagine if the WC had taken place in 2017 - you would've had (for the very last time) an in-form Genia, Beale, Foley, Hodge, (a career-best form Folau), with Kuridrani, Speight, McMahon, Kerevi, Dempsey & Koroibete) all at the height of their powers also.

 

[Tomikin]

One way World Rugby could go a long way to trying to lessen the advantage and impact of the rolling maul in professional rugby would be to send all maul tries to the TMO to adjudicate on. Normalise maul tries being disallowed because someone has swum forward or back and not transferred the ball etc. to make sure that teams scoring from them are at least doing it technically correctly.

At the moment it is pretty inconsistent and doesn't seem to be one the TMO inserts themselves in like other situations. How often do we see the TMO getting involved in a maul try suggesting that the referee should review something?

I think this should happen, but I also think the thing the Brumbies Maul does better then everyone is play the law. We get the little details correct. the formation, the people pushing through... we have it nailed and I dont think its illegal and if it was, they would change.. its a good setup, system, and getting the details right..

 

[Drew]

The brumbies maul is a well oiled machine. I think the multiple chances to get the maul going forward is a problem though. From five out a rolling maul is virtually impossible to stop legally when executed correctly. I’m pretty sure a few of the brumbies maul tries came from the initial shove, which I can live with as a contest for the ball. My issue is if the defending team repels the first drive, but infringe on the second or third what happens? Penalty, kick to the corner, lineout, rolling maul, penalty, kick to the corner, lineout, rolling maul, penalty, ad infinitum with a yellow card thrown in eventually. To me a good rolling maul, has the same effect as a dominant scrum, if a defending team has stopped a good maul legally, they’ve devoted a lot of players to doing so, which opens up the playing field for more expansive play and opportunities to score.

 

[fatprop]

I think this should happen, but I also think the thing the Brumbies Maul does better then everyone is play the law. We get the little details correct. the formation, the people pushing through. we have it nailed and I dont think its illegal and if it was, they would change.. its a good setup, system, and getting the details right..

Two things can be true at once

They are both part of the game and legalised obstruction

 

[Forcefield]

I don't like it when the attacking team intentionally splinters the maul. I'd have seen a lot more of that recently and it seems very borderline to me. I think there should be a requirement to have at least one opposition player between the maul and the direction it is pushing- on pain of "use it or lose it".

 

[John S]

I don't like it when the attacking team intentionally splinters the maul. I'd have seen a lot more of that recently and it seems very borderline to me. I think there should be a requirement to have at least one opposition player between the maul and the direction it is pushing- on pain of "use it or lose it".

Do you mean like when Slipper splintered off and took 2/3 opposition players with him? (Can't remember if it was in this game or a trial game?)

 

[Braveheart81]

The brumbies maul is a well oiled machine. I think the multiple chances to get the maul going forward is a problem though.

I certainly thinks refs should be quicker to call the maul stationary the first time. Realistically if it doesn't start moving immediately the first call should be made. The longer the attacking team is given to effectively set up without it costing them, the more difficult it is to defend it.

In this game I noticed that a couple of times where the Tahs defensive maul fell apart was when Whetton tried to get to the ball and failed. This is a key issue for defensive mauls. As the front defender the defensive team is largely driving on him and if he starts moving around and trying to get to the ball rather than concentrate that drive, the defensive push falls apart. This happened a couple of times and the well set up defence by the Tahs collapsed and the Brumbies scored.

 

[Pfitzy]

In this game I noticed that a couple of times where the Tahs defensive maul fell apart was when Whetton tried to get to the ball and failed.

In another part of the game we had them going backwards, then 2-3 Tahs stood up and tried to grab the ball as soon as Berry told them to use it.

Just hammer home your advantage, you clods.